Ep. 66: Communicating Across Generations with Jen Hellman

[00:00:00] Mall of America. For more than 30 years, it has been a retail leader and an international destination, and it remains the largest mall in the U.S. Not to mention it welcomes millions of guests from around the world. It's huge, but it's also so much more. In this podcast, you're going to hear the real stories of how it started and why it continues to thrive. You'll hear about challenges we've faced along the way and what you can learn from them. We will feature guests and experts from all walks of life and business, and along the way, you'll laugh at the same time.

[00:00:30] We will learn and maybe even change the way you look at things. So if you're a fan of the Mall, a brand new visitor, an entrepreneur, or a dreamer, prepare to dive deep into so much more. This podcast is presented by the Bloomington Convention and Visitors Bureau.

[00:00:48] Hello, Mall of America fans. Welcome to So Much More. I am your host today, Jill Renslow, joined by my co-host Dan Jasper, as many of you know already. We also have a very special guest and somebody that I have known for years, and I'm so excited to have Jen Hellman with us.

[00:01:01] I'm the president and CEO of Goff Public right here in Minnesota, in our neighboring town of St. Paul. It's a communications firm, and you have done so many wonderful things there.

[00:01:11] And we also have Maggie joining us from our team because we're going to talk about generations.

[00:01:16] And Jen is an expert in this space and has been presenting across the marketplace about the unique dynamic that so many businesses are facing right now with having multiple generations,

[00:01:26] and the unique communication styles and how we can accommodate them.

[00:01:31] So, Jen, welcome to our podcast.

[00:01:34] Thank you.

[00:01:34] We're so excited to have you here today.

[00:01:36] So before we jump into the generational conversation, talk to us about who you are, where you come from, your story about Goff, because like me, you've grown up in your organization.

[00:01:47] So we'd love to hear about your story.

[00:01:49] Of course. I know you and I are both, I think, very unusual for our generation in that we started at the jobs that we are in today, which has been a long time coming.

[00:02:01] I'm at 26 years at Goff Public.

[00:02:04] I started, I grew up in Delano, and I remember coming to Mall of America when it opened.

[00:02:10] This was a little bit of a trek to get here, but, oh, it was so cool and so exciting.

[00:02:15] And then I went to school in Northfield, so I didn't go too far away, and shout out to St. Olaf.

[00:02:20] And then I applied at Goff Public.

[00:02:24] It was founded by a gentleman named Bob Goff in an entry-level writing role.

[00:02:29] I drove up from Northfield.

[00:02:31] I interviewed with Bob.

[00:02:32] I pretty much got hired on the spot.

[00:02:34] And since then, I've had pretty much every role in the company and then took over about three years ago as president and CEO.

[00:02:42] I love that.

[00:02:43] And you have been such an amazing female leader in this marketplace and been involved in so many different facets.

[00:02:49] We met with the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce and have had a great network of women that we've stayed connected with.

[00:02:55] And I think that your footprint on this marketplace and how you've engaged with so many different brands has just been so valuable to us.

[00:03:03] So I appreciate your involvement in the marketplace and just your leadership from a female perspective.

[00:03:08] Right back at you, my friend.

[00:03:10] It's been great to be able to have a sounding board of women in this market that do amazing things.

[00:03:17] So that's great.

[00:03:18] So how did you get involved with this topic of generations?

[00:03:22] Because you were able to put together a great piece to be able to present on and to lean your expertise in this area.

[00:03:29] And where did that come from?

[00:03:31] Well, I mean, we kind of geek out on all things communications at Goff.

[00:03:36] We love thinking about how we're going to talk to different people.

[00:03:40] And that means talking to people across generations and realizing that they have very different ways of communicating and receiving information.

[00:03:48] So we saw it in the work that we were doing with our clients.

[00:03:51] But we also saw that in our work family at Goff, that we have multiple generations there.

[00:03:57] And we weren't understanding each other as much as we thought we maybe were.

[00:04:02] So I was asked to keynote the 50th anniversary of Darts, which is this wonderful nonprofit in the Twin Cities that helps people who are aging and their caregivers.

[00:04:13] And they wanted to talk about communicating across the generations.

[00:04:16] So I worked with my team to put together this presentation.

[00:04:20] And in the process of it, we learned a lot about ourselves.

[00:04:24] We learned a lot about the different generations that we can use on our clients' behalf.

[00:04:28] But during the presentation, people were just roaring.

[00:04:32] At one point, I had to tell everybody to settle down so I could continue my presentation.

[00:04:37] And then I realized, I think I'm on to something because this is a topic that is really near and dear to people's hearts.

[00:04:44] Not only in the way that we communicate with people at work, but also in the way that we communicate with our families.

[00:04:50] Absolutely.

[00:04:50] So talk to us about the different generations that we are interacting with in today's world.

[00:04:56] Because this is probably the first time that you have a working generation that crosses over four, if not five, generations.

[00:05:04] Yes.

[00:05:05] So we have multiple generations, starting with the oldest generation, which is the silence.

[00:05:11] So the silent generation, these are people born between 1925 and 1945.

[00:05:17] So think Martha Stewart, Nancy Pelosi, Dan Rather, Warren Buffett.

[00:05:22] Most of them are retired at this point.

[00:05:26] In fact, the very youngest of them are 79.

[00:05:29] So unless you're president of the United States, you are probably aged out of your profession.

[00:05:34] We do not have any silent generation in the room today.

[00:05:37] No, we're good.

[00:05:38] Yeah.

[00:05:39] So they tend to be—this generation, they had a lot of kids.

[00:05:45] They followed pretty standard rules.

[00:05:49] They were the generation that thought less about individualism and more of what's good for the collective good.

[00:05:56] And they were all thinking more about what's good for the country, what's good for everyone, rather than me individually.

[00:06:05] They tend to be more conservative than other generations.

[00:06:08] They also tend to be stable, calm.

[00:06:12] They have fewer mental health issues than any other generation after them.

[00:06:16] And they're less cynical.

[00:06:17] They tend to trust people more than the rest of us do.

[00:06:22] My parents fit into that generation, and it's interesting when you describe it.

[00:06:25] It's like you describe them to a T.

[00:06:27] So that was great.

[00:06:28] Dan, you're next up.

[00:06:29] You're a boomer.

[00:06:29] Yeah, I am not in that generation yet.

[00:06:33] They're getting close.

[00:06:36] Next up is the boomer generation.

[00:06:38] The boomer generation, 1946 to 1964.

[00:06:43] And these are the people like Oprah, Donald Trump, George Clooney, Bill Clinton.

[00:06:48] They are part of this big bang on modern individualism.

[00:06:54] So this is the generation that starts thinking, okay, yes, there's how are we going to contribute

[00:06:59] to the world?

[00:07:00] But also, I have individual needs and desires, and I'm not necessarily going to follow all of

[00:07:05] the rules.

[00:07:06] So they started also to do more around gender equity.

[00:07:09] We can have a lot as women leaders to thank them for really starting to say we don't have

[00:07:15] to follow the gender scripts and roles that have always been given to us before.

[00:07:21] They had a unique interest, and still do, in politics and activism.

[00:07:25] And because they are the largest generation, and also at that kind of golden age right now

[00:07:30] of wisdom and experience, they tend to just be dominating the political spectrum.

[00:07:36] Yeah, I'm sorry.

[00:07:37] What was that about wisdom?

[00:07:38] And no, I'm kidding.

[00:07:40] I'm kidding.

[00:07:40] I'm kidding.

[00:07:41] But what I did hear from that is that I'm very similar to George Clooney.

[00:07:45] That's what I took away.

[00:07:46] That's what I heard of.

[00:07:46] That's a nice alignment.

[00:07:48] I also heard some other names on that list.

[00:07:50] We'll go with George.

[00:07:53] So when you think about how do they show up at work, they tend to be pretty optimistic.

[00:07:57] They are team-oriented.

[00:08:01] They're also workaholics because they came from the generation where you put your head down,

[00:08:07] you do hard work, you do not complain about it, and you will be rewarded for it.

[00:08:11] And the harder you work, the more value you have in society.

[00:08:15] And so they're kind of the martyrs, right?

[00:08:18] We can think about these people in our workplaces that they just work and work and work and work.

[00:08:23] And that is very typical of boomers.

[00:08:26] Hmm.

[00:08:26] Dan, does that sound familiar?

[00:08:28] Yeah.

[00:08:28] I grew up, and the saying was always, be the first one in the office, last one to leave if you can be, right?

[00:08:33] It's that generation.

[00:08:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:35] Absolutely.

[00:08:36] Then moving on to our generation, the Gen Xers.

[00:08:40] We share our generation with Elon Musk, Jennifer Aniston, Tiger Woods, Julia Roberts, and of course, Jill Renslow and Jen Hellman.

[00:08:49] So what makes our generation unique is we straddled the analog and digital generation.

[00:08:55] So we went to school before there were computers in the classroom, when the World Wide Web was just being invented.

[00:09:03] You know, we had to learn how to look things up in the library and not be able to do research.

[00:09:08] It wasn't at our fingertips.

[00:09:09] And so when we talk to people like our kids and explain what it was like when we were kids,

[00:09:14] it sounds like we're a whole lot older than we are because it was so different.

[00:09:19] We also are the generation where we had mom and dads that were both in the workforce.

[00:09:24] And we did not yet have programs to be able to account for the fact that we had so many double income working parents.

[00:09:32] So we are also the product of being latchkey kids and having to be pretty independent because we didn't have anybody necessarily taking care of us after work and after school.

[00:09:44] So some of the way that we think about ourselves, we tend to have high self-esteem.

[00:09:51] We continue more of the focus on self and what we need.

[00:09:55] We tend to be delayed in leadership roles.

[00:09:58] And Dan, I'm going to blame this on your generation.

[00:10:01] And I apologize.

[00:10:02] And this is the boomers not wanting to get out of the way because they're workaholics, right?

[00:10:07] They associate their identity with work and they're like, I don't know that I'm ready to step away from that.

[00:10:12] And then the Gen Xers are saying, but we're ready to lead.

[00:10:15] Yes, yes.

[00:10:16] I totally relate to that.

[00:10:17] And I think it's interesting because so many of the millennials, which we're getting to, will take credit for all the technology innovation.

[00:10:25] But it's like, hello, the Xers were the ones that created all the innovation.

[00:10:30] And then they implemented it.

[00:10:32] So it was like, you know, my kids call me from the dinosaur ages because to your point, like all the references that we make and growing up and being that bridge generation.

[00:10:40] But it's like, you know what?

[00:10:41] Give a lot of credit to the Xers.

[00:10:42] And it's a smaller generation to my understanding.

[00:10:45] And so it's like there was a lot of things that happened during that time.

[00:10:49] There's a lot of change in that transition.

[00:10:51] So I think we deserve a lot of credit for what's been happening in the world from a positive perspective.

[00:10:56] We used to have to get up to the television and turn the dial, right?

[00:11:01] Or the rotary phone.

[00:11:02] Yes.

[00:11:02] We actually had a dial.

[00:11:03] Yeah, it's crazy to me that you didn't have a cell phone too.

[00:11:06] I don't know how that would—

[00:11:07] We did in the later years.

[00:11:08] Then we had pagers.

[00:11:08] Pagers were like a big thing.

[00:11:10] You felt really cool when you get to wear a pager around.

[00:11:13] That was like one of the early highlights of my career because I did media relations.

[00:11:17] And the media relations people got to wear pagers.

[00:11:19] So it was essentially drug dealers and media people.

[00:11:23] Right?

[00:11:24] Right?

[00:11:25] Yeah, I mean—

[00:11:27] And doctors, but that's okay.

[00:11:29] And doctors.

[00:11:30] Yeah.

[00:11:30] I didn't know any doctors at the time.

[00:11:33] Oh, my God.

[00:11:35] Maggie has a whole different perspective on Gen Xers now.

[00:11:38] I don't even know what a pager looks like, to be honest.

[00:11:40] So I'm going to have to look it up.

[00:11:41] I'll show you on the computer.

[00:11:43] It's a little box that you would clip on your belt.

[00:11:45] And you wanted people to see that you were wearing the pager.

[00:11:48] Status.

[00:11:49] Very cool.

[00:11:49] It was a very cool thing.

[00:11:50] Yes.

[00:11:51] I love it.

[00:11:52] Which we don't have any millennials showcase in the room, but let's talk about them.

[00:11:57] Well, these are people like Justin Timberlake, Britney Spears, Mark Zuckerberg, and Taylor Swift.

[00:12:03] They are very self-confident.

[00:12:05] So every generation gets more of a focus on individualism.

[00:12:10] These people are truly the army of one.

[00:12:12] They grew up with a preschool song that went,

[00:12:15] I am special, I am special, look at me.

[00:12:17] And this is kind of then the way that their life would be set up.

[00:12:21] They are digital natives.

[00:12:23] They grew up using the technology that we're still figuring out how to use.

[00:12:27] They're highly educated.

[00:12:29] They are delaying parenthood or not having kids at all.

[00:12:33] And they also tend to be less religious and more liberal.

[00:12:36] So when they show up at work, they love self-expression, feedback.

[00:12:42] They like to be asked their opinion.

[00:12:44] And they find that authenticity is more important than etiquette or being polite or having hierarchical

[00:12:51] structures.

[00:12:51] They really just want a kind of a free flow of ideas.

[00:12:57] They're willing to work hard like your generation, but they are the first generation to really

[00:13:02] insist on work-life balance and believe that you can achieve that.

[00:13:06] So Jen, do you see that like when you have that skip generation, when you go from the boomers

[00:13:11] to the millennials where you have a lot of parents and kids, do you find a lot of commonalities

[00:13:15] with that connection with those generations just like you would with the Xers and the Zs?

[00:13:20] Well, what you find is that the way that the generation that the parents are from changes

[00:13:26] the way that they raise their kids and then how the kids end up turning out.

[00:13:29] So when we had generations where you would have, families would have 10 children, they

[00:13:35] were ready to get them out of the house and launch them as quick as possible, right?

[00:13:39] Because that was a lot of mouths to feed and they couldn't keep them on.

[00:13:42] Now when people are choosing to have very small families, that's the reason that we're delaying

[00:13:48] adulthood longer because we can pour all of our resources into that one child.

[00:13:54] And so they're delaying growing up longer.

[00:13:57] So this would be the Gen Z generation.

[00:14:00] Of 25-year-olds and younger, 50% of them still live at home.

[00:14:05] So that's quite a shift.

[00:14:06] And it's just a change too in the way that people parent.

[00:14:10] It's less, it's more of a friendship collaboration rather than, you know, you feel like you're

[00:14:16] getting in trouble and need to get out of the house.

[00:14:17] So you're saying my college students will be living at home for a while?

[00:14:20] Yes, you can expect them back.

[00:14:22] Okay.

[00:14:22] Oh yeah.

[00:14:22] Oh yeah.

[00:14:23] I will prepare accordingly.

[00:14:25] So Gen Z, Suni Lee, Olivia Rodrigo, Simone Biles, Billie Eilish.

[00:14:31] And Maggie.

[00:14:32] And Maggie.

[00:14:34] So there's more gender fluidity in your generation than any other generation before.

[00:14:40] There's not necessarily, this is the way guys behave, this is the way girls behave.

[00:14:44] So my story that I have of this, I was taking my 18-year-old shopping at Mall of America to

[00:14:49] get ready for his senior photos.

[00:14:51] And we were noticing that male and female clothing styles really don't look that much

[00:14:58] different anymore.

[00:14:59] And he had bought a pair of pants and really wanted kind of like a good thick sweater to

[00:15:04] wear.

[00:15:05] No sweaters were showing up in any of the men's stores.

[00:15:08] So he's like, let's go to Aritzia.

[00:15:10] I love the stuff there.

[00:15:12] And so we go to Aritzia and it's, you know, packed with women, but there's also men shopping

[00:15:17] there because it just doesn't matter anymore.

[00:15:20] And I love that part of this generation.

[00:15:23] They're just a lot more free to really be themselves.

[00:15:27] Yeah.

[00:15:27] And it's an interesting observation because we do have a lot of brands that are merging

[00:15:32] those gender lines and being very like forthcoming with that and being able to market it in that

[00:15:38] way as far as to really welcome that generation in that is looking for that fluidity in their

[00:15:44] gender, like their appearance as far as what they're looking at for apparel.

[00:15:48] So it's very interesting that you have that observation.

[00:15:50] They also really value physical and emotional safety.

[00:15:55] And before we start saying, well, this generation is soft, this generation is tough because they

[00:16:03] have had to grow up knowing that every single day they go to school, they could get shot.

[00:16:09] All of our generations, we never even could conceive of that.

[00:16:13] We had tornado drills, right?

[00:16:15] And you maybe had, you know, like drills to protect us from the Russians, right?

[00:16:19] I did.

[00:16:19] I did.

[00:16:20] Right?

[00:16:21] Get under the desks.

[00:16:22] That's going to stop it.

[00:16:23] That's going to stop it.

[00:16:24] And cover your neck, right?

[00:16:25] Right.

[00:16:27] This is also the generation where we grew up watching movies about pandemics and thinking,

[00:16:32] well, that could never really happen.

[00:16:34] It's fiction.

[00:16:34] Your generation saw the entire world get shut down for two years.

[00:16:39] And so this generation is saying, it's okay that we see this play out on college campuses.

[00:16:47] Free speech has always been so important, but this generation is saying, but there's a limit.

[00:16:52] There's also this thing called hate speech, which we are very aware of.

[00:16:55] And which has serious consequences.

[00:16:57] So people can't actually say anything.

[00:17:00] So you have to think about the context in which each generation grew up and what affects them.

[00:17:05] And what I find most interesting about the generations is that you're more influenced

[00:17:09] by the generation you grew up in than the parents who raised you.

[00:17:13] So that is what we each have with people around us.

[00:17:17] And this is why you can't ignore the way that we are influenced by our generation,

[00:17:21] because it is so much a part of every one of us, whether we like it or not.

[00:17:25] Absolutely.

[00:17:25] And we have all the generations that work here at Mall of America.

[00:17:28] And I think it's interesting to learn about how people receive and how they deliver communication

[00:17:34] and how you could be offensive and you don't mean to.

[00:17:37] So I would love to get into some of those nuances because you came to speak with our team recently.

[00:17:43] And I know it resonated really well across all different groups.

[00:17:48] And just to have those aha moments where it's like, okay, I didn't realize that's what I was doing.

[00:17:53] Or I'm receiving this and I didn't realize how I was supposed to be responding to it.

[00:17:58] So let's talk a little bit about that.

[00:17:59] And I would love to start with Maggie.

[00:18:01] Being exposed to Jennifer's presentation just recently in some of the context,

[00:18:05] what were some of those moments that you were surprised or you didn't really think of

[00:18:10] until you heard it from the presentation?

[00:18:12] Yeah, I think it's interesting.

[00:18:13] When I was going through all the generations, I really found myself resonating with millennials and Gen Z.

[00:18:20] I feel like I might be like a cross between.

[00:18:22] And maybe that's because I'm an older Gen Z-er.

[00:18:25] But in the workplace, I really feel like I communicate with all generations the same.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:34] Well, and I think you are a very mature Gen Z-er.

[00:18:38] I mean, you've been able to really connect and understand the different generations.

[00:18:43] And we also, we do insights here at MOA where you have a color coordination based on how you communicate,

[00:18:51] how you react to things, how you prioritize.

[00:18:53] And so that has helped us as well understand how people are wired.

[00:18:57] And if they want to be able to have more of a conversation or like Dan and I were red.

[00:19:03] So that means like we're to the point.

[00:19:04] We want to make sure we can get things done and just get to what you want to say.

[00:19:09] So understanding people's colors, understanding their generational differences,

[00:19:12] I think is really helpful and impactful in the workplace to be more efficient

[00:19:16] and be more meaningful in how you get things done.

[00:19:19] Dan, did you have something to share?

[00:19:20] Yeah.

[00:19:20] I had two observations.

[00:19:22] One that I really, I had found out about a week before you gave your presentation.

[00:19:27] My son texts me a lot.

[00:19:29] He's almost 39.

[00:19:31] And I have a typical response of giving a thumbs up to whatever he sends, right?

[00:19:36] In my mind, that's an answer for everything.

[00:19:38] And at one point he said, what does that mean?

[00:19:41] Are you saying, yes, you're going to do this?

[00:19:43] Are you acknowledging you received it?

[00:19:44] You're telling me you're alive?

[00:19:46] What is this about, right?

[00:19:47] So we actually had a fun conversation about that.

[00:19:49] And I went, oh, okay.

[00:19:50] In my mind, I was just being affirming, right?

[00:19:53] And it was a wonderful way to hear how he perceives that.

[00:19:57] But in the office, I had a really interesting thing.

[00:19:59] This happened a couple of months ago where I was talking to one of our younger millennial type team members.

[00:20:04] And I was asking if they had connected with somebody.

[00:20:07] And they responded that I sent an email like a week earlier.

[00:20:11] And what's followed up?

[00:20:13] Well, nothing.

[00:20:13] They haven't gotten back to me.

[00:20:14] And I just went, come with me.

[00:20:16] And we walked down.

[00:20:17] It was someone else in the office, right?

[00:20:19] So we just walked down and said, how about this, right?

[00:20:22] But it didn't really dawn on them.

[00:20:24] They were like, I've sent my communication.

[00:20:26] I'm waiting for a response.

[00:20:27] So I thought it was really interesting, Jen, because we'll just walk into someone's office and say, hey, let's talk about this, right?

[00:20:34] And that's what drove us crazy during the pandemic because everything was on Teams or everything was on Zoom.

[00:20:39] And it was like, I just want to have a quick conversation with somebody and just tackle the problem or have, you know, just put an end to it versus setting up a time to get somebody on the call.

[00:20:48] And it just drove me crazy.

[00:20:49] So I couldn't wait to get back because those conversations that you had pre and post meeting and those quick walk-bys, you know, you just got things done.

[00:20:57] And I just, that interaction was so important to me.

[00:21:00] But it is, it's, you have to respect that not everybody is wired the same way.

[00:21:03] Well, and that's true.

[00:21:04] And you're, when you're saying, I just want to get things done, I want to be concise, that is Gen X.

[00:21:10] We do not like to use extra words.

[00:21:12] We go ahead and start our email with, why waste time with, hello, how are you?

[00:21:18] How is your day going?

[00:21:19] That's already too many words.

[00:21:20] That's already too many seconds in my day.

[00:21:22] So we tend to just get right into it.

[00:21:24] We give a little thanks, period.

[00:21:27] Your generation is saying, why are you so mad?

[00:21:30] Like, why can't you just say, why?

[00:21:33] The punctuation, the period after like, okay, period, it scares me.

[00:21:37] I feel like you're upset with me if you say that.

[00:21:40] I don't know why.

[00:21:42] But it's so funny because my daughter, if I respond on text, if I use punctuation, she's just like, mom, that's so,

[00:21:49] formal, that's mean.

[00:21:50] Like, you have to soften up.

[00:21:52] I'm like, I'm just being complete.

[00:21:53] Like, it drives me crazy when you don't complete your sentences or you don't use punctuation.

[00:21:58] So it is good to have that dialogue because what I intended was not meant to, you know, how it was received.

[00:22:04] And so it's definitely important to have those conversations.

[00:22:07] I've also had to switch the way that I communicate versus when I'm texting my friends, I text a bunch of different messages.

[00:22:13] So I'll send like 10 texts at a time.

[00:22:15] But at work, I have to just send one text message and that's it.

[00:22:19] Thank you.

[00:22:21] I appreciate that.

[00:22:22] Anything that comes to my head, I just text, send, text, send.

[00:22:25] So that's a difference.

[00:22:26] Well, and I think where you're going is you think that that's the way that you receive information.

[00:22:31] That's how others would appreciate it.

[00:22:32] And so this is what opened a whole can of worms at Goff.

[00:22:37] And I think it is for all these conversations we're having because it's the first time you go, oh, wait a minute.

[00:22:42] Me saying thanks, period.

[00:22:44] I truly mean thank you.

[00:22:45] That's really great.

[00:22:46] I'm glad you're helping me out.

[00:22:48] But my younger employees are saying, why doesn't she appreciate me?

[00:22:53] And so it's good to recognize that everybody receives things in a different way, even if it just seems so natural and normal to you.

[00:23:00] So what are some of the other takeaways, Jen, that the different generations do or they don't do through communication that would be interesting to our viewers and listeners?

[00:23:10] Well, I think, I mean, some of the tips are around knowing that how powerful communication is.

[00:23:16] Good communication.

[00:23:17] We want to make sure that we're not just spewing data and information to people, but we're actually making a connection.

[00:23:25] That matters in our families.

[00:23:27] That matters with our colleagues.

[00:23:29] And so we need to think about breaking down those barriers.

[00:23:33] It's really fun to kind of talk about the different generations and how we're different and, you know, how one might seem better than the other.

[00:23:39] But ultimately, we're just different.

[00:23:41] And so recognizing that, accepting that, embracing it, trying to learn more about others' communications preferences, trying to learn more about what are emojis and how does that work and what does punctuation mean?

[00:23:53] And there are terms that younger generations use that we don't know the meaning of.

[00:23:57] It's okay to say, wait a minute, I've never heard that.

[00:24:00] What does that mean?

[00:24:01] Not because I need to start using the term to try to seem cool, but because I want to better understand.

[00:24:07] So I think not being afraid to ask questions.

[00:24:11] And it's okay if there are things that you don't know because communication is constantly changing.

[00:24:16] Absolutely.

[00:24:17] So I would love to know what are your top three emojis that you guys use in communication because I'm curious if there's crossover.

[00:24:24] So, Maggie, what do you use?

[00:24:26] So I use the crying face emoji a lot, but not when I'm sad.

[00:24:29] I just use it a lot.

[00:24:30] You know, if I'm excited or I don't know.

[00:24:33] That doesn't really make sense, but I don't know.

[00:24:35] And then I use the hand-holding heart emoji and the fire emoji.

[00:24:41] Okay.

[00:24:42] Yes.

[00:24:42] I like it.

[00:24:43] Well, I use primarily two, which is the thumbs up because you can't go wrong with the thumbs up.

[00:24:50] The smiley face because that is the original emoji.

[00:24:53] That's all I'm going with.

[00:24:54] Then occasionally I might use the smiley face with the tongue out.

[00:24:58] One of those.

[00:24:59] And I don't know why.

[00:25:00] Yeah.

[00:25:01] But I think it's funny.

[00:25:02] Yeah.

[00:25:02] What does it mean to you?

[00:25:03] I think it's either it's funny or I'm exasperated.

[00:25:07] Stop.

[00:25:08] Right?

[00:25:08] Like if I'm with my son or something and he's texting me or something, he's like, leave me alone.

[00:25:13] Well, and you said you used the poop emoji too, right?

[00:25:15] Or was that?

[00:25:15] No, that was Mike Divertick.

[00:25:16] No, I don't.

[00:25:18] I do not.

[00:25:19] I take offense to that.

[00:25:21] It sounds very Mike Divertick.

[00:25:25] I feel like you should be using the Santa emoji more often.

[00:25:27] I should.

[00:25:28] Make it your trademark.

[00:25:30] That's my goal for this year.

[00:25:31] There you go.

[00:25:32] I like that.

[00:25:32] Jen, what are your top three?

[00:25:33] Well, I love the laughing cat emoji.

[00:25:35] That's my favorite.

[00:25:36] So why cat versus just the laughing emoji?

[00:25:39] I don't know.

[00:25:40] It's just cute.

[00:25:41] Yeah.

[00:25:41] Okay.

[00:25:41] It's cute, right?

[00:25:43] And then I, what else do I use?

[00:25:45] I use hearts a lot.

[00:25:48] I guess I'm being pretty girly with my emojis.

[00:25:51] But do you want to know the number one misunderstood emoji?

[00:25:54] What is that one?

[00:25:55] Fingernail painting.

[00:25:57] So what does that mean?

[00:25:59] It means something different to everyone.

[00:26:01] Yes, it does.

[00:26:01] Which is why it's so misunderstood.

[00:26:03] Fingernail painting.

[00:26:04] I've never used it.

[00:26:06] Oh, you have to be like, it's the hand and then it shows.

[00:26:08] Yeah.

[00:26:08] And so sometimes that means like self-care.

[00:26:10] I'm taking care of myself.

[00:26:11] Other times it means like doing my own thing.

[00:26:14] I don't care what, you know, what you're putting down.

[00:26:17] Or I'm bored.

[00:26:18] I'm bored.

[00:26:19] Slay.

[00:26:20] Slay.

[00:26:21] Slay.

[00:26:21] Which is slang.

[00:26:22] Slay.

[00:26:23] I don't really use that.

[00:26:24] They're laughing.

[00:26:26] I don't use the slang words, but I feel old not using them sometimes.

[00:26:30] You using that was so slay.

[00:26:32] Thank you.

[00:26:33] I feel like I'm constantly looking up things that my kids text me just so I don't sound,

[00:26:37] like so I try to figure out what it means.

[00:26:39] But then yes, I'm not using it in response.

[00:26:41] But just to understand what are you trying to say to me?

[00:26:44] But I think what's interesting is to do this every once in a while is to look at your emojis

[00:26:49] because it'll obviously show which ones you use most frequently.

[00:26:52] Because I'll do that once in a while.

[00:26:53] And I'm like, oh, I use the sad face a lot this week.

[00:26:56] And I'm like, I wonder why I did that.

[00:26:57] Or I'll be like, oh, I use the laughing one a lot.

[00:26:59] Or, you know, I do use the heart all the time.

[00:27:01] Probably overuse it.

[00:27:02] But then that's why it's like, okay, I use the same ones over and over.

[00:27:05] I'm like, I got to change it up.

[00:27:06] So I'm going to look into this nail painting one now.

[00:27:09] Well, and I do.

[00:27:10] Mix that in.

[00:27:10] I would recommend on those weeks where it's really sad faces,

[00:27:13] I would do the nail painting one and go do a little self-care.

[00:27:16] I think so.

[00:27:17] Treat yourself.

[00:27:18] I think so.

[00:27:18] I like it.

[00:27:19] But maybe it's the crying where it's actually like laughing, crying.

[00:27:22] That's actually more.

[00:27:23] Except I would think you're crying.

[00:27:25] That would throw me off.

[00:27:27] I love it.

[00:27:28] Well, this has been an awesome conversation.

[00:27:30] And I think it's encouraging for everyone to just take a step back

[00:27:35] and sometimes realize that where you're headed, what you're saying,

[00:27:38] how you communicate isn't always the most effective with the audience

[00:27:42] that's receiving it from you.

[00:27:43] So I think it's always a good reminder for all of us,

[00:27:46] especially to know that there's a lot of generations,

[00:27:48] there's a lot of different styles out there just to be respectful

[00:27:51] and to learn and to be open-minded of what's possible out there.

[00:27:54] But to end this, I would love to know, Jen, what's next for you?

[00:27:58] You have been so busy with Goff.

[00:27:59] You've been very busy in the podcast world.

[00:28:02] We see you.

[00:28:03] We hear about you.

[00:28:04] So what's next?

[00:28:06] Well, a little bit more of the same.

[00:28:08] I mean, at Goff, a huge part of our values is getting involved

[00:28:11] in the communities where we do business.

[00:28:13] So you'll continue to see me out there serving on boards,

[00:28:16] trying to make the Twin Cities a better place.

[00:28:18] But we're also constantly tracking these communications trends.

[00:28:22] Communication is going to continue to evolve and to change.

[00:28:26] And so we're always working on staying on the top of our game

[00:28:28] to figure out what is the next generation going to have in the workplace?

[00:28:32] And we're all changing all of the time, right?

[00:28:35] What are our preferences going to be?

[00:28:37] And what's going to move people?

[00:28:38] And how do we build trust in this divided society?

[00:28:41] These are the things that we're thinking about

[00:28:43] and we'll be continuing to work on in the coming years.

[00:28:47] I love that.

[00:28:47] Well, if you're interested in Goff, definitely check them out online

[00:28:50] and also follow Jen on LinkedIn.

[00:28:52] She really posts a lot of industry-leading content and thought leadership.

[00:28:56] So we appreciate you.

[00:28:57] Thank you for joining us today.

[00:28:58] Thank you, Maggie and Dan.

[00:28:59] And that's going to do it for today's episode of So Much More.

[00:29:03] So be sure to tune in to where you listen to podcasts,

[00:29:05] and we'll see you soon.

[00:29:07] Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of So Much More.

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