Ep. 70: Arik Hanson Social Media Expert part 2

[00:00:00] Mall of America, it's home to world-class shopping, great dining, and amazing attractions and events.

[00:00:05] And these are our stories presented by Bloomington, Minnesota Travel and Tourism.

[00:00:12] Welcome to this episode of So Much More. We are continuing our conversation with Eric Hanson,

[00:00:17] social media expert, and the conversation continues. You know, a couple of things on

[00:00:22] LinkedIn specifically that I've seen is that I have noticed more use of video, right? And

[00:00:30] that's the main one I want to talk about. Is there value to that? And okay, this is a two-part

[00:00:36] question, starting with video. And then the other one is, what if you're a really busy executive?

[00:00:41] I believe some top level executives maybe have people do their postings for them. Your thoughts

[00:00:47] on that? So two very diverse questions in one. Let's tackle video first.

[00:00:51] He's really good about loading them all.

[00:00:53] He's peppering him. And go.

[00:00:56] Let's start with the video. So you're right, the video, LinkedIn is

[00:01:00] actually come out and said, like this is a priority for us in the algorithm. They're favoring

[00:01:05] that. So having more video in general makes sense. The trick is how do you make it seem,

[00:01:11] going back to the authenticity angle, how do you make it seem real and authentic, not like

[00:01:15] I'm a corporate spokesperson and I'm going to talk on camera. So that's where I think,

[00:01:21] you know, if I'm you guys, again, you have the, most people don't have the benefit of having

[00:01:27] this wonderful backdrop that is the mall at your disposal. Most people work in an office building

[00:01:31] and it's very sterile. I'm like, they don't have the backdrop. You guys have a huge backdrop. I think

[00:01:35] that you can take advantage of if I was doing video where it might not be like you're behind

[00:01:41] a conference table and you're doing this, which you don't want anyways. It'd be like you roaming the

[00:01:45] mall and telling a story that way.

[00:01:47] I like it.

[00:01:48] You have a wonderful opportunity, I think, to do that with video. I'm thinking from a LinkedIn

[00:01:52] perspective.

[00:01:52] Yeah.

[00:01:53] Because LinkedIn video is really hard. It's like it all comes across as super stiff and super

[00:01:58] corporate-y. But I think if I was you guys, I would kind of take advantage of the backdrop.

[00:02:04] Good.

[00:02:06] And then remind me of your second question. I forgot the second question.

[00:02:09] I believe some executives may have other people write their content for them. Pros, cons,

[00:02:16] what are your thoughts on that?

[00:02:17] Writing other people's cons. So that for sure happens, obviously. I can only speak to what I

[00:02:22] do with executives. When I try to work with them, even if they say, Eric, we want you to help us

[00:02:29] develop the content, my reaction is usually, let me take a first stab and then I want you to make

[00:02:34] this yours.

[00:02:35] Sure.

[00:02:35] Yeah. And then we go back and forth that way. So I'm kind of in that situation, I'm kind of like

[00:02:40] AI for them. I'm giving them the starting point, but then they're going to kind of change it and

[00:02:45] make it a little more personal. And that approach works okay. It works pretty good. It's obviously

[00:02:52] best if you can coach them up and have them do it on their own. And a lot of times the conversation

[00:02:58] is like, for me, it's like, well, if you want me to create the content, this isn't going to work,

[00:03:02] and I don't think you should do it. You have to have a little skin in the game and ideally it

[00:03:06] needs to be all you. So I think about the executives that I've talked to that do it the best, that's

[00:03:10] what they do. It's all them. And I coach them once in a while or someone coaches them, but it's mostly

[00:03:15] them.

[00:03:16] So you brought up AI. Very curious of your thoughts of how that's going to change the conversation.

[00:03:22] I know already it's depending on how it's used, sometimes I find it very entertaining because of

[00:03:28] what is able to be creative. I just saw, it's been out there for a little while, but it's the

[00:03:33] little kids that are on the runway that they're dressed up in the Halloween costumes and stuff.

[00:03:36] And it's like, okay, this is not possible, but super cute. And it's entertaining.

[00:03:40] Made you laugh.

[00:03:41] It made me laugh. It put a smile on my face. But then when it's used for purposes, when it's actually

[00:03:47] content that people are believing in and you have to, you know, and I appreciate the brands that are

[00:03:53] putting icons or labeling the fact that it is AI generated, but there are some that are not.

[00:03:59] Where do you see that going?

[00:04:01] I will preface this by saying I am not an AI expert. There's plenty of people that know a lot more about

[00:04:06] than I do. But my take on it is that I think you're starting to see some blowback in terms of

[00:04:12] people saying there's too much AI-driven content on the social channels already. You've seen that on

[00:04:18] LinkedIn. You've seen people complain about it specifically. So I think we're on the precipice of

[00:04:22] seeing that. At the same time, I think it's a really great tool from a communication standpoint,

[00:04:29] for researching and brainstorming. Like that's how I hear when I talk to my corporate friends about

[00:04:34] like, how are you using this stuff really? That's what they say, those two things. So if you think

[00:04:39] about a tool called, you know, like Google's Notebook LM, like that's a perfect example. Like

[00:04:44] you use that thing, you can, you know, put all this information in there and it gives you FAQs. It

[00:04:48] gives you a podcast where you can listen to it in your downtime, summarize the information.

[00:04:52] Like to me, that's a pretty useful way to use it where it makes your life easier versus like,

[00:04:58] I'm not going to use it to like create social content necessarily, but to brainstorm maybe

[00:05:03] rough ideas for things down the future and, you know, down the road. Yeah, maybe that. That's kind

[00:05:08] of where I see it. Yeah, I would agree. I think driving efficiency has been absolutely key,

[00:05:12] getting thought starters, getting outlines developed. I love summarizing notes, like even just

[00:05:18] going to ShopTalk recently. I literally was recording some of the presentations. I was using

[00:05:24] Otter to record some of the presentations. I was dropping in notes and then being able to summarize,

[00:05:29] you know, three days worth of content. And that way I can bring it back to the team and say,

[00:05:33] okay, here are the highlights. But it was such a time saver. So I definitely agree with you from that.

[00:05:38] What else are you guys doing with AI?

[00:05:40] We're using it for a variety of different tools internally, more for that brainstorm and just

[00:05:45] thought generation, even just drafting up proposals and some outlines, things like that.

[00:05:50] Looking at it from a design perspective for production purposes, again, starting the creative

[00:05:54] process internally, making sure we have the concept team. But when you have to resize it for

[00:05:59] 50 different sizes for different formats, having tools to help us do that is really helpful.

[00:06:05] And also looking at it, and I think this was one of the topics that ShopTalk focused on, was using

[00:06:11] tools for your frontline staff to be able to solve problems, answer questions for your consumers versus

[00:06:18] having to go to your managers, supervisors, things like that. So finding the right tools. Not a lot of

[00:06:22] great ideas and execution with the guest perspective, but I think those internal tools,

[00:06:29] making things efficient are a game changer. I mean, that really helps with the operations of the

[00:06:34] staff. You may not know this about me. Switching topics a little bit is I am, well, shall we say

[00:06:44] addicted to TikTok, which is hilarious because I was the one who was like saying when we were talking

[00:06:50] about getting it, saying, oh, I don't know, we should get this. It is a rabbit hole and I watch

[00:06:55] it way too much. But Jill and I were talking the other day and it was a really interesting conversation.

[00:07:02] Would love to kind of get your feedback, which is there's a real mental health crisis in our country.

[00:07:09] And there's a real mental health crisis connected to social media. And what are your thoughts around

[00:07:15] that and your solutions? Well, that's front and center for me. I have a 17-year-old senior at home

[00:07:23] and a 20-year-old sophomore in Denver. And those two are on their phones way more than they need to be.

[00:07:29] So I see that every day. And even like the kids at St. Thomas too, like college kids, like they're

[00:07:37] addicted to those phones, you know, and for better or for worse. In some cases, it's really great.

[00:07:41] In a lot of cases, it's not so great. Are you one of those professors that makes them put it away?

[00:07:45] I do make them put the phone away. Yeah, right. They need to put the phone. I mean,

[00:07:48] we're using it a lot in class, but like I try to make them put it away. Yeah, I don't think it's

[00:07:54] great. I really don't. And I know I've kind of been, I've received a decent amount of pushback

[00:07:59] in the industry around that, but I see, I mean, I don't think the scientific stats lie anymore with

[00:08:05] what it's doing to the kids, specifically to the kids here we're talking. Again, I see it at home.

[00:08:12] I see it at St. Thomas. Like it's not great. And it's creating a culture. I mean, we're seeing the

[00:08:17] outgrowth of this in the professional world, right? Like they don't want to, the kids don't want to call

[00:08:20] people, right? They don't want to do face-to-face. Yeah, you're right. We've had this discussion too.

[00:08:24] That's the outgrowth of looking at a screen your whole life, you know? So I think though,

[00:08:30] they're smart enough though that they're going to, we might see a tide shift, I think, sooner or later,

[00:08:35] because you're already starting to see some, like my son's a good example. Like he doesn't look at

[00:08:40] his phone all that much anymore. He's kind of tired of it, you know? And he's like, I don't need to

[00:08:43] look at Instagram anymore. I don't want to look at TikTok all the time. And I don't know if that's

[00:08:47] really so much he knows what it's doing to him, but he's just kind of sick of it, you know? And

[00:08:51] I feel like that there might be a little bit of that wave coming with the kids, but I think,

[00:08:57] I'm not sure what needs to happen exactly, but I'm not sure I have a big solution there. I just

[00:09:01] know that I agree with you. It is a big challenge for the kids right now. It's a huge challenge.

[00:09:05] I think one of the things that Jill and I are pretty aligned on most of these issues, we see things

[00:09:11] the same way. And one of the things that I remember a while back that Jill instituted in our meeting

[00:09:17] was everyone, your phone is either not here or it's, you can't be looking at it, right? This is,

[00:09:24] we're all connecting here in a meeting. So I think even breaks like that help, right? Otherwise,

[00:09:30] people are sitting there answering emails while they're in a meeting and they're not connecting

[00:09:35] with people and not paying attention. I love that you brought up the student aspect. You are adjunct

[00:09:41] at the University of St. Thomas and the University of Minnesota, correct?

[00:09:44] Well, it's kind of not currently at the University of Minnesota, just St. Thomas,

[00:09:48] but I have taught at the U.

[00:09:49] Yes. And talk about why you, first of all, I'm hoping that brings joy to you. I'm assuming it does.

[00:09:56] It does, a lot.

[00:09:56] And what that, the impact that's had on you and why you think that role is important to yourself

[00:10:01] and to the students?

[00:10:03] Well, for me, it's selfishly a chance to get out of the house. So we talked about the loneliness

[00:10:09] factor. That's one of the ways I combat that is teaching gets me physically over to St. Thomas

[00:10:14] a couple of times a week, if not more. I'm seeing students, I'm seeing some of the other professors

[00:10:19] sometimes. I'm on campus around other people. That helps a lot. So that's number one for sure. But

[00:10:25] it's also, and I know this sounds kind of cliche and a lot of teachers say this, but it's true,

[00:10:29] especially in social media. It's like, I learn, I mean, I'm there to help them, right? I'm there to

[00:10:34] educate them and help them get smarter about social media marketing and content marketing. But

[00:10:38] at the end of the day, I ended up learning as much from them as they do from me, you know,

[00:10:42] because I'm constantly quizzing them. I do it on purpose too. Like I'm saying, I remember when

[00:10:47] it became this big thing that they were, that kids were known more that kids were using TikTok as a

[00:10:52] search engine. It was like, tell me more about that. And we had this huge conversation about like how

[00:10:56] they're using TikTok to search for things now on the way, this was like a year ago.

[00:11:01] And that was fascinating. I couldn't have got that information or any other place. So

[00:11:06] it's really great for that. And then it just, you know, it feels great. Like no one does the adjunct

[00:11:12] professor thing for the money. They don't really pay that much, but it's just a lot of fun to like

[00:11:18] interact with these kids and see this is our future. And you start to develop a relationship

[00:11:22] with them. And for, as an adjunct, it's fun because like I tell them like, once you leave

[00:11:26] St. Thomas, we're colleagues. I'm not the teacher anymore and you're not the student. We're colleagues.

[00:11:31] We're equal. And that's been really fun after I've, now I've been teaching for five years. Like

[00:11:36] some of the kids that have been out in my class for three or four years, they have these cool jobs now.

[00:11:39] And it's like, I mean, we kind of developed friendships with these kids, which is kind of weird,

[00:11:45] but like it, that's, I mean, we're, we're, we're equals now. So, and it's been really fun to see what they do.

[00:11:50] So it's kind of, it's really rewarding that way. And that's where LinkedIn plays such a great

[00:11:54] role because Dan and I do a lot of guest speaking at different colleges and classes and to connect

[00:11:59] with those students or for them to have resources as they're looking for jobs or to your point,

[00:12:04] they could be clients or vendors or partners down the road or get jobs with us. We get a lot of

[00:12:10] interns that turn into full-time employees. So we love those connections. And to your point,

[00:12:14] we're learning from them as much as they learned from us. And I love the generational

[00:12:20] differences within our office space. Cause you talk about college students,

[00:12:23] we have a lot of young people that work here and I thrive off of their knowledge and how they use,

[00:12:29] interact with brands, how they use technology.

[00:12:31] Communication style.

[00:12:31] Absolutely. And it's so important. We actually just recently had Jen Hellman

[00:12:35] from Gotth Public on, we were talking about the differences of generations and how it is with

[00:12:40] communication and just how you show up at work and that in-person versus remote. And it's just,

[00:12:47] it pushes all of us to keep our doors open and our minds open to the opportunities that,

[00:12:53] you know, you can look at things differently. Just the way you do it isn't always the right way.

[00:12:57] And it's great because they're going to learn from you. You have institutional knowledge.

[00:13:00] We've been here forever, but they bring such a fresh perspective, which is extremely valuable.

[00:13:05] So what have you learned from the younger people on staff here? Is there one or two things you've

[00:13:09] learned recently?

[00:13:11] To get them out of their chairs to go walk down the hall to talk in person.

[00:13:15] Interactive people, right?

[00:13:16] It is about, you know, to get off the technology sometimes where you have to develop those

[00:13:20] relationships. And we do work in person at least four days a week. We have an optional day

[00:13:25] to work remotely, but being able to work together is so powerful because we build off each other's

[00:13:31] ideas and creativity. So we really appreciate that here. But it is understanding that how I communicate,

[00:13:37] even on text message or through Teams or through any sort of digital channel that I'm more formal.

[00:13:45] Like I just, I use punctuation and I have complete sentences. And sometimes people receive that as,

[00:13:50] oh, she's mad or she's very stern. And so when you open up and have those conversations and learn

[00:13:55] how people receive your communication, how you're delivering it, it's like, oh, well, I can change

[00:13:59] that up. Like I'll put a smiley face. I'll change my emojis to make sure you know I'm happy.

[00:14:04] Now she's really mad.

[00:14:08] Well, double period. What is happening?

[00:14:10] What is she saying? What's she saying?

[00:14:12] It is funny. It was a good conversation with Jen as well. Kind of one last topic, if that's all right.

[00:14:18] And Jill and I had talked about that as well. Do you want to bring it up? I think we're on the,

[00:14:23] probably on the same page.

[00:14:24] I don't know. What are you going to talk about?

[00:14:25] I'm sure we're on the same page.

[00:14:26] There are times when a topic might come up on social media and a brand gets pulled into it,

[00:14:32] even though it's not related. Our brand, Mall of America, gets pulled into some things that have

[00:14:38] nothing to do with us. And we'd love to kind of hear your thoughts on that. It's challenging for us,

[00:14:45] right? Because we're here going like, this isn't us. This has nothing to do with us.

[00:14:49] But it's something that brands face, right?

[00:14:51] It's not always positive. And that's what sometimes the challenge is.

[00:14:55] So how do you enter the conversation or how do you withdraw from the conversation if you don't

[00:15:00] want to be a part of it?

[00:15:01] How do you remove yourself from the conversation when you're not?

[00:15:03] That's a tough one. I mean, I probably can think about some of the cases where this has happened

[00:15:08] to you that have been kind of public. So I've probably seen some of these, but I think that is

[00:15:14] a difficult situation for you because how do you, you can't, it doesn't always just go away on its

[00:15:22] own. Usually you'd say, sometimes you can just kind of let you sit there and this will kind of

[00:15:25] fizzle out because the news cycle moves so fast and something will happen within 24 hours and take

[00:15:29] it away. That's usually, I would fall probably somewhere towards there because everything's so

[00:15:34] fast now, especially now with like, I mean, for example, if something happened this week,

[00:15:37] just wait five minutes and the election will take it over, right? It's not going to matter.

[00:15:41] Um, but other than that, I'm not sure if there's a lot you really can do to tell you the truth,

[00:15:49] because sometimes the more you say, the more you can kind of dig the hole and give them ammunition,

[00:15:54] right? Which is usually probably what happens. Um, so as much as I don't, um, advocate for usually

[00:16:00] staying silent, I remember I worked with a client years ago, a retail client that I cannot name,

[00:16:05] but they would have people that would attack them politically on one side and then, and then

[00:16:11] depending on what they say, the other side would come in and I'm sure you've seen this before.

[00:16:14] And, uh, this is years ago though. So this is kind of new. And I remember talking it through and

[00:16:20] my suggestion kind of was like, let's just stay silent and see what happens. And then doing some

[00:16:24] of that stuff and, and, and taking that suggestion and actually having success with that because

[00:16:29] we got attacking from both sides, like, you know, there's no winning in that situation. And

[00:16:36] you know, what are you going to do? You know? Agreed.

[00:16:38] So it's really, that's a tough one. And I sympathize, but I'm sure there's a ton you could

[00:16:43] do. Yeah. And I know we're, we're giving a lot of Mall of America examples on this podcast,

[00:16:47] but I'm hoping that our listeners and viewers can make it applicable to their brands or who they

[00:16:52] work with, because I think there's a lot of commonalities across some of the examples that

[00:16:55] we're giving, because to your point, we do get pulled in and we're a unique brand because we

[00:17:00] have affiliations with a lot of different things that are out there. But we have found that

[00:17:04] sometimes when we can't control the conversation to jump in, it's just going to add fuel to the fire,

[00:17:08] especially to the, the, those that are engaged in the conversation that are not favorable towards

[00:17:14] it. You're not going to change their opinion, but we have found that a lot of your advocates,

[00:17:18] your fans are going to cut step forward and they're going to be your voice. And so you can really

[00:17:22] stand back. It's very hard, especially for our social team that is watching every comment and

[00:17:27] paying attention. It's like, Nope, you need to just walk away because it will just, it'll work

[00:17:31] itself out. And it does. The news cycles usually happen pretty fast. And we, we know kind of that,

[00:17:36] that natural time clock of like, is it going to be a 24 hour cycle? Is it going to be 48 hours?

[00:17:41] But it's like sometimes you do need to step back. And when we have new people that come to the table

[00:17:44] and they're like, Oh my gosh, can you see what people are talking about? It's like, just let it go,

[00:17:47] let it go. But it's hard because you protect your brand. Your brand is part

[00:17:52] of your day-to-day and you want to make sure that it's taken care of, but sometimes you just have to

[00:17:57] let it roll, which is hard. You're right though with advocates. That's usually what happens is that

[00:18:01] your supporters will step in and kind of take some of the heat for you. But there's, I just think

[00:18:07] about this happens in real life too. I think about what's going on with, not to make a musical

[00:18:11] allegory here, but like Chappelle Rhone with her mental health issues. I mean, that's a prime example.

[00:18:16] Like she said what she's going to say, it's out there. Everyone knows how she feels,

[00:18:21] but yet she still has people attacking her every day on Instagram. And it's like, well,

[00:18:25] you know, what's she going to do? Respond to all those people or is your team going to do? You know,

[00:18:28] they're not going to do that. So it can be a tough space.

[00:18:31] You just have to take the shots sometimes.

[00:18:32] So I'm curious, you know, right now we're, most people are very active with TikTok and Instagram,

[00:18:37] still on Facebook for your different connections. Um, and some on X, um, obviously threads that has

[00:18:45] built from there, but what else would you say we should keep our eyes out on, um, as we look forward

[00:18:50] at the social sphere? I think two platforms that I've, I'm looking closely at, um, is number one,

[00:18:57] Reddit. So not as a way for you to jump in necessarily, especially for the mall. I'm not

[00:19:01] sure you'd want to do that, but as a listening tool, absolutely. You know, so you can kind of

[00:19:05] uncover threads that aren't happening elsewhere on the internet, on Reddit. And now with Google surfacing

[00:19:10] those search results a little bit more, that's kind of an interesting spot. They're unveiling

[00:19:13] more advertising options. Like there's something going on with Reddit that's worth paying attention

[00:19:17] to down the line. And then number two, from a publishing standpoint would be, um, and I'm

[00:19:22] not sure this has a lot of relevance to the mall, but it would be Substack. Like Substack

[00:19:26] is kind of blowing up. And I mean, and I guess in the, in the, in the mall sense, it does have

[00:19:32] relevance because I think about the fashion industry, like the fashion industry is all over

[00:19:35] Substack. Like there are multiple people that have huge Substack communities in the fashion

[00:19:39] industry. So like, um, that's becoming a nice publishing platform that, and especially with

[00:19:45] like there's weird stuff going on with WordPress right now. So like from a blogging standpoint,

[00:19:49] that kind of seems like that's where the juice is at. So that's going to be interesting to see

[00:19:53] where that goes as that, as, as they mature as a platform too, in the years ahead. Uh, and to see,

[00:19:57] and there's really not a lot of brands involved with Substack right now. It's more of like a

[00:20:01] creator thing, but, um, I could see that changing very easily.

[00:20:05] And let's, um, maybe we'll wrap it up with this if that's all right. Let's say, um, I work for a small

[00:20:11] company and I, my niece is doing part-time social media for me or something, right? Um, what advice

[00:20:19] would you have for a small company, whether or not to engage on social and what their strategy might

[00:20:25] be? Not a big budget.

[00:20:27] Channel prioritization. So I would say if you're a small company, like pick one channel and just do

[00:20:33] that and do it really well. So if it's a small retailer, it's probably going to be Instagram

[00:20:37] or TikTok, but like just pick one. You don't have to be on three or four channels. You can't

[00:20:41] if you have one person outfit. Um, I think that's the, still the biggest mistake a lot of,

[00:20:45] and those are, that's a mistake big brands make too. Like you don't have to be on all these

[00:20:48] channels, like just pick a few that you're really good at and that you think your customers are on

[00:20:52] and like hone in. Don't overdo it. Yeah. So a follow-up to that. Yeah. If you focus on that one

[00:21:03] want to grow into those eventually. I mean, it's always a good idea to secure your handles just so

[00:21:07] people don't, you know, kind of squat on them for lack of a better turn. Um, but yeah, you never know.

[00:21:13] I mean, if you have, if you have a small business and it grows up into a huge, you know, addicted

[00:21:17] type scenario, like, yeah, I mean, you definitely want, that's part of the reason why you would

[00:21:21] reserve those handles. But, um, I still think even if you get big, it's like, that's when it becomes

[00:21:27] a problem, right? It's like, well, we need to be on all these channels. It's like, no, you don't.

[00:21:30] Just stick with the two, one or two that you're really good at that your customer is on that you

[00:21:35] can do well on. Because even if you're get to be a bigger brand, you're still not, I mean, you guys

[00:21:41] are a case in point. You're still not gonna have a huge social media team. You know what I mean?

[00:21:43] Like most companies don't have more than two or three people. Like that's not a lot of people to

[00:21:48] produce all this content you need to be on these channels. So it's good advice. So if our listeners

[00:21:53] would like to connect with you in some way, what's the best way for them to do that area?

[00:21:56] Okay. Uh, you probably either on LinkedIn, um, where you can find me and my name is spelled

[00:22:01] kind of funny, A-R-I-K Hanson, or I'm publishing on Substack now too, which is a great way to

[00:22:06] find me. Um, publishing my weekly newsletter there.

[00:22:09] Okay. Awesome. Thank you. Uh, Eric, we really appreciate you joining us. This has been a really

[00:22:14] interesting conversation. I think we got to all the questions that Jill and I were talking

[00:22:17] about before you came. Really appreciate it, Jill. Thanks for joining us as always.

[00:22:21] And for all of our listeners and viewers, thanks for joining us for this edition of So Much More.

[00:22:28] Thanks for listening to So Much More, a Mall of America podcast. Subscribe wherever you find

[00:22:33] your favorite podcasts. This show is presented by Bloomington, Minnesota Travel and Tourism.