Ep. 34: Creating A Universe (Nickelodeon Style)

[00:00:00] Mall of America, for more than 30 years it has been a retail leader in an international destination and it remains the largest mall in the US. Not to mention it welcomes millions of guests from around the world. It's huge. But it's also so much more.

[00:00:15] In this podcast you're going to hear the real stories of how it started and why it continues to thrive. You'll hear about challenges we faced along the way and what you can learn from them.

[00:00:25] We will feature guests and experts from all walks of life and business and along the way you'll laugh, learn and maybe even change the way you look at things. So if you're a fan of the mall, a brand new visitor, an entrepreneur or a dreamer, prepare

[00:00:38] to dive deep into so much more. This podcast is presented by the Bloomington Convention and Visitors Bureau. Welcome to So Much More. I am Jill Renzlo, the Chief Business Development Officer here at Mall of America and your host for today's podcast.

[00:00:52] I am joined by my co-host Chris Gropp. You guys know him well. And our guest today has been a partner and friend of Mall of America for more than 16 years. We work together on the biggest transformation in mall's history.

[00:01:05] When we turned our theme park from Camp Snoopy to Park at MOA to Nickelodeon Universe, it has been a great partnership and we've had so much to talk about over the years and we have so much to share with you today.

[00:01:18] So please welcome Ron Hines, the Vice President of Themed Entertainment with Paramount Consumer Products and Experiences, along with our very own colleague, Mr. Brian Spielman, who's the Vice President of Attractions here at Mall of America. So welcome gentlemen. Thanks very much, Jill. We're going to have fun.

[00:01:34] We are going to have fun. I mean, these pockets are always super fun. I feel like that was the hard part. Get through all that. I know you got to get it all out there to set the stage.

[00:01:42] But we have something very special here at Mall of America and then layering on our partnership with Nickelodeon Universe. It's about delivering an experience. And what's really special is when we can bring characters and stories to life

[00:01:57] that fans see on TV, they see in the movies, they see through gaming and being able to have that immersive experience right in front of them that they can capture, enjoy, take pictures of and hold those memories forever.

[00:02:09] So we have a seven acre anchor in our property called Nickelodeon Universe and it's 16 years now that we have brought this fun to our fans. And this is all because of the partnership that we developed with Ron and his team with Nickelodeon parent company Paramount.

[00:02:27] And would love for you to kick us off, Ron, talk a little bit about your role within Paramount, the importance of you bringing IPs, which are intellectual properties to life for the fans and that importance of our partnership here at Mall of America. Sure. Happy to do it.

[00:02:42] I could talk about this all day and I usually do. Yeah. So I mean, it really is. And it's a natural extension of our business, right? Our core business, of course, is content distribution, right? But then you have major pillars that come out from that like consumer

[00:02:57] products and experiences. You know, you want to take these things that people know from from linear distribution or from online and streaming, of course, and bring it to their lives, right? We use the walk around characters, right?

[00:03:10] The characters as that's the best metaphor for what we do, right? It's you can reach out and literally hug this IP, you know, that you've grown to love, you know, through your television, your products, all these experiences. So that really is the core of it over simplifying.

[00:03:25] You know, there's a ton of analytics we do in the very beginning, right? It really starts with our partnerships, with our licensing partners, is what are the goals, right? What are we trying to do? Kind of the who, what, when, where, why? Who are we entertaining?

[00:03:37] Where are they going to be? There's so many, you know, the region, age, the demographic split. All those things come into play, you know? And you guys have needs that you need to meet from an attraction standpoint,

[00:03:50] right? You know your market and we have to listen to that and be sensitive to that and then find the right IP mix, right? The right IP balance to meet all those different needs because we want to we want to entertain kids from two to 102.

[00:04:02] That's a mantra we've held for a long time and that's and that's a real thing. I can't remember what the question was, but here's I just keep talking. You're good. You're answering it. I love it. It's just about your role in bringing those characters to life.

[00:04:15] And when you got tapped on the shoulder, learning about Malva America, I'm curious of what that reaction was when you learned that there was an opportunity to bring the Nickelodeon brand to fans here at Malva America, knowing that we don't just have

[00:04:29] Minnesotans in our building, but we really touch the world and have those fans from two to 102 and love the opportunity to entertain them. So one of the great aspects of this particular project, it's just it's it's the creative challenge of it, I suppose, right?

[00:04:45] Was there was a balance, right? There were existing attractions, existing hardware and a lot of new things. And we had to figure out so there are some things you literally, you know, you can only change so much. Where do you make those strategic decisions?

[00:04:58] Right? Where do you know, where do you put which IP to meet? Which demographic? And that's really where I do start in the process is understanding again, what are the what are our partners needs? What are the guests needs? What are the expectations in that market?

[00:05:13] And then what IPs make sense, right? We know we have a very broad portfolio at Nickelodeon, of course, at Paramount. But for this instance, it's really Nickelodeon. You know, and we have Evergreen IP, right? So those are the ones that we know will always be here.

[00:05:28] And we have ones that are strong today and we always want to emphasize that, but we have to be responsible because you know, IP does come and go as things will do in a portfolio. So making strategic decisions along with our partners about which

[00:05:42] which attractions should be themed to which which IP what makes the most sense? Funny rides, funny IP, thrilling rides, thrilling IP. It really is why I say simple. It's really kind of complicated, but I'm trying to keep it simple so that Brian and Chris can keep up.

[00:05:58] It's very good. Very good. And that's great. Great transition. So I was going to ask Brian to go next and share with us your story because you have a really unique role at the mall overseeing attractions, not just Nickelodeon Universe, but a lot of our attractions.

[00:06:13] And you had the opportunity to work in Camp Snoopy. That's actually where you started your career here. So you had the transition from Camp Snoopy. We had the Park at MOA, which was a very short term transition period. But then to Nickelodeon Universe. What was that like?

[00:06:26] And what are the similarities with the different IPs and what your role responsibilities are and how has that evolved now working with Nickelodeon? Yeah, well, maybe just a tad bit different role. Again, it was the fudge counter of the general store at Camp Snoopy

[00:06:42] in a retail environment, so a little different than now. But the IPs, you couldn't have two, I'd say, different IPs either making that adjustment. And you know, you guys were extremely involved having this outdoor Camp Snoopy theme park to very vibrant, colorful.

[00:07:02] Just the IP itself is completely different. So I remember grand opening and being part of that team. And I spent most of the day changing ticket machines and working on wristbands. So it wasn't so much about the IP that day, but the excitement

[00:07:19] and having SpongeBob and all the characters, as you say, come to life run right at the East entrance doing the ribbon cutting. Those are things I still remember from that grand opening. So we had our hands full for less than a year when we were tasked with transforming

[00:07:34] transforming the park and some of the key elements of the Camp Snoopy days. I'm having that outdoor park feel was really important for us to maintain. And also as our friends from Nickelodeon came on board and recognized the uniqueness of our indoor park, there were elements

[00:07:51] that we kept intact. But then there was a lot of new and you said color. I think that was the biggest transformation was seeing the infusion of color into the park. What were some of the key factors that you wanted to make sure we hung on

[00:08:03] to that were nostalgic and that were really important to our guests? Well, still to this day, like as we're working on a more recent ride development, right, one that's getting ready to open. And I remember Chris fighting for trees as we often do, right?

[00:08:17] The trees in the outdoor nature and like you say, how that sticks out and makes our park different from other indoor theme parks, right? There aren't a lot of indoor theme parks, but ours really brings the outside in

[00:08:30] and those trees and that plant life, I would say, were always a crucial part of of our theme parks no matter what the IP. And it is fun to get into those discussions now as we talk about development

[00:08:41] and well, we can't get rid of this tree or the pineapple bush or tree. Is it a bush or tree? I don't know who we've got. I'm going to play. Yeah. Those conversations continue. And again, I think this team has been amazing at finding a balance of that,

[00:08:58] right? How do you bring an IP to life and yet keep that outdoor feel? Absolutely. And Ron, you've learned so much about us and what's been important in this marketplace. And also just learning how do you infuse those new brands?

[00:09:12] You talked about Evergreen Brands, if you can give some examples of those and how you prioritize how you integrate IPs into a park, because some things can be on hardware such as the rides versus some of the soft softer areas or signage and things.

[00:09:27] And how do you have that balance? So you have some more of the permanent components versus those that are a little bit more transitional that you can change out to try out new IPs to see what might stick with the fans. Yeah, of course.

[00:09:37] So I mean, for us really the top Evergreen IP and of course, SpongeBob, right? He really is our ambassador for life. Right? He captures Nickelodeon's essence on his own anyway. So he's our guy for sure. But we also have really solid, solid long term properties like

[00:09:57] Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Dora the Explorer, newest just past 10 years, if you can believe it, is Paw Patrol. You know, but they kind of join the ranks. And then there is a huge portfolio just underneath that of properties that are strong, but maybe never had like that stellar,

[00:10:13] you know, just like stellar trajectory where they stayed so popular for so long. And we try to tap those as well. Then there are newer properties or even niche properties, right? That are also a lot of fun, but you have to balance on is it a risk?

[00:10:27] Is it because by definition it's a niche. So it's not necessarily an appeal to everybody. But you know, you can look at other studies where you can create appeal for an IP that might not have been there before just by

[00:10:38] proper implementation in LBE or in a location based experience attraction. So we're really fortunate there. And then, of course, we always look for other opportunities to to get the newest and the most fun because we also want to stay

[00:10:51] relatable to your guests to what they see on air. Right? You also have a massive return guest base. So you have to keep it fresh. Walk around characters, entertainment, change out graphics. Those are great sort of we call a soft programming opportunities.

[00:11:07] And we work with folks like Chris to really tap those and really, really deliver on that as well as we can. While staying responsible, you don't want to spend, you know, ex-gajillion dollars on a brand new roller coaster themed around

[00:11:19] something that may or may not be a really, really long play for us. Absolutely. So Chris talked to us about how you help us keep it fresh. You have a lot of creative ideas that you push us on to

[00:11:30] because a lot of times it doesn't have to be a ride. We love bringing in new rides, but your team does a great job of pushing the envelope to make those connections with the guests and keeping it fresh so that every time they come back,

[00:11:41] there's something new and they are surprised and delight every time they come. I think when I first started here, too, it was just because I didn't know any better. Right? So we just started asking the questions about

[00:11:51] can we skin the food and beverage stations to bring an IP into that? Can we draw more opportunity? Like you said, these little soft opportunities where if it's something that isn't necessarily tested, we have worked together to find those. The North entrance has become a rotating photo opportunity

[00:12:10] where we can try those things out and do that. So it's working with the team to talk about what the on air celebrations are going to be and identifying those opportunities for us where we can make those changes.

[00:12:21] And then I think we've been really good and mindful, too, about not just looking at slapping an IP on an attraction, but making sure the attraction is right and serves the IP. So on the other end, when we do have these legacy properties,

[00:12:36] we want that to be something guests from all over the world will, if they come and visit us as they should, don't feel disappointed that it's not just a brand slap that we've been intentional about what we're doing. We know better now.

[00:12:50] These are things we've learned a long ways and you can plan for it and budget for it. And that's all part of the process as well, right? To make sure you have a full experience. It does take funding and time and the things we've learned over the years.

[00:13:05] I mean, think about how long ago that was in doing those things. We've all grown to see the guest become a bit more savvy and using the same language that we do. So we know that they're educated and they have tools to share these things more and faster.

[00:13:20] So we want to make sure that what's being put out there too is good and represents all of our ideas and hard work very well. So, I mean, and that's just like the hardware side, but then it's working with your team on the live entertainment side, too,

[00:13:32] which is everybody knows post pandemic has been very challenging to get back up and running with the level of staffing that we were used to. But I'm really excited that, you know, we've been very intentional to try and push this and we have great people in entertainment

[00:13:48] that understand things a bit differently now and are being a bit more mindful about how we present this to guests. So we can do more in a day. We can do a Paw Patrol show and we can do slimmings.

[00:13:59] We can we can work together to make more offerings using that same team and just just turning them at different points in the day. But it's I'm truly I'm excited for the spring break. We just did a test sliming of the first time ever.

[00:14:13] Guests can pay to be slimed at Nickelodeon Universe. And it was a really fun little show. It's a quick show, five minutes, lots of slime. But these are the types of things we want our guests to be able to do

[00:14:25] and to be able to work with a partner to do that. And it's been a lot of fun. So the email call out or call to action. Slimers needed or slimy people needed. So that's awesome. And his kid answered the call. Yeah. Exciting afternoon.

[00:14:41] You see that come across your email feed. And that's that's not an everyday thing. It doesn't happen at an ordinary business. It's special. And I think all four of us are on the table have been slimed. Am I correct? That is correct. Because that is a privilege.

[00:14:54] And so we are all honored to have been slimed. It's the highest honor for sure. Right. A little sticky. It was a little sticky, but it's a fun experience. It tastes too bad either. No, it's actually quite tasty. Food great. It's all good. Sorry, Ronald.

[00:15:08] What were you going to say? Yeah, I don't remember. Actually, it's a notable day for me if I don't have slime on almost every one of my emails. Actually, a notable day for me. I'm not doing something right. We were the first, right?

[00:15:22] We were the first project you had of this size. Okay, for sure. Now how many do you have and where do we fall in size? You know, like just to show the growth and evolution of what location based entertainment has become.

[00:15:36] I know you're going on a two week trip and visiting several different partners, but just that growth. So I mean, Mall of America is for sure. Nickelodeon University Mall of America is for sure still one of our top theme park properties.

[00:15:48] But as we to your point, as we branched out into resorts have become real green field development for us. Right? That's a great place to to entertain guests. We've done several different cruise partnerships and a lot of fun. And we learn from all of these, right?

[00:16:01] The biggest single component that translates across all of them is always going to be entertainment. You know, but then we look for things that we find that a smaller ride or attraction or even an entertainment offering at Mall of

[00:16:12] America is something we can plug in that a resort, right? Or a resort partner resorts are unique because they are literally 24 seven. You know, our brand is alive for those guests 24 seven. And we're constantly looking for what's succeeding there is why. How can we apply that somewhere else?

[00:16:26] Merchandise has as an example, we do custom merchandise and we've partnered with some of your other partners, right? And that's helped us out different synergies and buying power and things too. So even marketing activations, that sort of thing from format to format

[00:16:40] can be a little different, but the through line, right? Can usually be shared. We have corporate initiatives that we want to try to make sure you know, show up as in an in an in an entertaining way.

[00:16:55] Just to keep your guests entertained and keep them connected to what they're seeing. But so for sure, whether it's themed food and beverage or resorts of hospitality, cruises, live entertainment, touring shows, all these things have something to offer. Theme parks bring the bulk of it together, right?

[00:17:12] Maybe without the without the heads and beds that the resorts have. And we have the connected hotels here, which make it great because people can have the entertainment in the theme park. We can have those other ancillary elements in our common area.

[00:17:25] We've had some of those touring shows before and then they can stay overnight as long as they want. And we love to entertain them. So it's a great package and hopefully in the future, we can even maybe have a resort here. So absolutely. We love those opportunities.

[00:17:38] I would love to hear from you guys about some of your favorite memories over the last 16 years. We've been through a lot together. We've added a lot of exciting things to our fans and for all of us to enjoy

[00:17:51] any favorites that you go back to when you're asked about this transformation of Nickelodeon because we have so much so many more years to come. But any fun stories and memories that you guys have that you love to share?

[00:18:04] It seems like Ron's got what top of mind here for sure. I'm scared. So. Like you said, the development schedule for the original opening was it was ambitious, you know, bring it on, right? We were all young back then too and could do this kind of thing.

[00:18:21] So I was art director at that point. That was my role when we opened this project was art director and as the only art director and you guys were running 24 hours a day, three shifts to get this project up and open.

[00:18:32] I was here pretty much 24 hours a day for a lot of that. And one of the restaurants that was wasn't open at the time, one of the food and beverage outlets that wasn't open became my ad hoc office. That's where I set up my laptop.

[00:18:44] And I mean, I was it was probably three or four in the morning. And, you know, the fine folks at the Bloomington Police Department, right? Doing their jobs are wondering, because I'm not a contractor. I don't have a hard hat or credentials.

[00:18:55] You know, I'm just a guy who says he works for Nickelodeon. And they wanted to know what I was doing in this, you know, not abandoned in this unoccupied restaurant and tried to explain it to him. And, you know, they wanted real answers and I get it.

[00:19:07] May have been a little punchy as well. But then Rich Hogy came to my rescue. My always hero came and always saw him take the officer aside. They had a nice long conversation and came back and told me to get back to work.

[00:19:21] But yeah, I think the day that a partner and a friend had to come, you know, keep me out of jail. That was probably one of my more enjoyable memories. It was a good one for sure. It takes it takes a village. It was a crazy timeline.

[00:19:33] I mean, we converted that park in less than a year. And I think we all were sleeping orange, eating orange, drinking. Like it was just everything that was our world, because I don't think fans realize the depth of detail that needs to go into

[00:19:46] that transformation. I mean, they see the visual elements that are in the park, the rides, the decor elements, things like that. But it was food service. It was ticketing. It was all the installation of the new rides. Just there were so many layers.

[00:20:01] And it's the training, the staff entertainment and getting everybody ready to go. But opening our doors in March of 2008 was unbelievable. I don't know if you guys have any fun stories from grand opening.

[00:20:14] But one thing that will never leave my mind is the joy that we saw in the families that came and the crowds that were in Nickelodeon Universe. And you could just peer over the sea of people just having such an amazing time.

[00:20:29] And you always, you know, it's like build it and they will come and they came in droves. And it was just so rewarding to see all that hard work pay off. And when you talk about walk around characters,

[00:20:39] when you saw those kids run up to SpongeBob and get that first hug and just the emotion you can see in their face and the excitement. It just it was heart payments back to back all day. It was just it was so rewarding for that grand opening.

[00:20:52] So I don't know if you guys have any other stories to share for grand opening? Not from grand opening. I wasn't here. I was here for the VIP opening. So it was a little privilege with all the tiered fruit and all this is great.

[00:21:05] If they do this all the time, it's real. Well, it was super fun. But just talking about the opportunities that we've had to think about these things and the attraction development part as we get

[00:21:16] to add new things to it, one of my favorite times is going down to Texas with Brian, Jerry, Brad and Lenny, three of our part maintenance guys, two of them no longer here with us. But looking at a certain attraction that was being talked about for the park

[00:21:29] and watching Jerry, Brad and Lenny tear that thing apart in front of the operators about why it was the worst piece of crap they've ever seen. And Brian and I looking around like, what else are we going to do here? We've seen enough.

[00:21:41] And then we found another piece of equipment over there. And that's how we ended up with Shredder's Mutant Mashers instead of a different piece of equipment. But thanks for that, by the way. But it was great. But then that just brings me to like today.

[00:21:59] As we walk the park today, looking at Boots, Banana Swing and Bubble Guppies, which feels like maybe a minor piece. That's really the biggest site redevelopment we've had in a long time where that area was nothing before that we've added new life and energy

[00:22:14] to all to bring Fly With Apa here. And I really loved walking the park this morning with these guys and having these quick little conversations and being able to make some decisions that get into the details. Ron and I were talking some very nerdy little details today

[00:22:28] that just warmed my heart. And I love being able to have those conversations because you know, there's a guest that's going to pick up on it. And it's going to be really special for them. You just love to be able to know. Oh, man, I do.

[00:22:39] And those details they resonate whether they whether they recognize it or not. Those details resonate with guests. They recognize quality immersion. Somebody thought about something. Yeah, for sure. I actually was going to bring up this morning as well.

[00:22:52] Oddly enough, and I think it's maybe a testament just to how far we've come as partners, not that we didn't have these projects before, but we were talking about the details and it felt so good to only be talking about the details, right?

[00:23:06] Because we've been looking at paper and now we've got this monster ride sitting in front of us and there wasn't an emergency, there wasn't some major obstacle we had to overcome. We've worked together for so long. And we know what to look for.

[00:23:20] And Ron has trained us, especially me. Ron even stuck up for me on an operation standpoint today was talking about how things might get dirty here in the Florian and maybe we ought to look at that. So that was just an enjoyable walk.

[00:23:31] There was literally a moment where you and I were leaning against the railing and we're like, I'm so glad we are at this point having this conversation right now about the side of the sign is the color. Is that going to be OK?

[00:23:43] It was like, this is great. If we're here, we're all good. And you talk about the creative strategy around this, right? That's kind of one of my favorite pieces of this puzzle is the creative strategy. Right?

[00:23:54] Avatar, the last airbender, we know what a rock solid property that is, right? And it made it onto one of the biggest new e-ticket attractions that we opened 16 almost years ago now. And here we are now, right? That property, I mean, obviously created a huge fan base,

[00:24:13] definitely went into definitely went into just the the Comic-Con crowd. Right? And it's so strong. We, Paramount Nickelodeon, opened Avatar Studios, right? We brought Brian and Michael, the original creators back, gave them their own studio and they are developing their bots off to all kinds of content.

[00:24:34] Aligning with that, here we are now taking something that was not the best utilized space in the park and we're doing something new and it's going to be a home run for for you guys, for us. Like it's that great confluence of all the different things we do.

[00:24:47] And it's intentional. Yeah, for sure. It's not a brand slap. It's intentional. Amen. So Brian, paint the picture of our new ride that's going to be opening soon, our Fly with Appa. Fly with Appa, a family ride. That's one thing I'm really excited about.

[00:25:00] Four passengers can ride together. We don't have a lot of rides that way. But some self control in the ride, you have some say about what you do or don't do. So I think that's really exciting. And it's Appa, yip yip.

[00:25:15] I mean, he's such a cool character to create something around. It does so well for us with merchandising and it's such a fan base. So just excited. Right. Opening soon. A couple of weeks away. A couple of weeks away. Yes.

[00:25:30] Spring breakers that are coming to Malibu, America this spring break. Enjoy the new ride. And we'll be here for to say it's going to be a signature for us. So to wrap things up, since I am around my Nickelodeon nerd friends,

[00:25:43] I want to do a quick rapid fire so we can wrap this up with a bow. So just quick answers, boys. So we don't need to go into stuff. You've got to be quick. Clearly, Brian, favorite walker on character. Oh, Patrick. Ron. Oh, pass. Squidward.

[00:26:04] Is that like asking your favorite child? That was a. OK, OK, we'll go to a different one. You get a pass on that one. Best photo op in Nickelodeon universe, Chris. Oh, it's going to be with the new Fly with Opera ride, the big paw print. OK.

[00:26:21] Ron, what's your favorite photo up? Wherever Gary the snail is today. Right. That is so much fun again. Confluence of all those things. Nickelodeon since human. Yeah, where's Gary the snail today? Easter egg in the park is to find Gary the snail. It is great. What's your photo?

[00:26:34] Slime bench. Slime bench. Yeah, no brainer. Right? We have the new Squidward bench. That's my new favorite photo op. You have to find Squidward. You get to sit by him at the bus stop. It's it's one of my favorites. So love that one.

[00:26:47] OK, who has been your favorite kids choice award host? Ron. John Cena. Cena. John Cena. Yeah, Cena. I thought Jack Black. I like Jack Black. That was so good. OK, favorite seasonal activation. We do lots of different things throughout the year.

[00:27:03] These are some of the things that we share across other properties. What's your favorite seasonal? Booniverse during the Halloween season. Yeah, specifically the Yule Log shoot. Super fun overlay. Slime break, right, which is coming up tomorrow. It is it is. And lastly, favorite ride in Nick universe.

[00:27:23] Brian was Avatar Airbender. I think come fly with Appa. It's going to be our number one. Ron Avatar Airbender. Yeah, Log shoot. It's a given with Chris. We all know Chris transforms the log

[00:27:38] shoot on a regular basis, so I also am going to have to go with Avatar Airbender. So that is going to do it for today's episode. So thank you fans for sticking with us to learn about all things Nickelodeon.

[00:27:48] Come check out the new fly with Appa opening soon. We'd love to see you here and enjoying Nickelodeon universe at Mall of America. See you soon. Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of so much more.

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[00:28:28] Before your next trip to Mall of America, visit bloomingtonmn.org. For answers to all your travel questions, deals and packages for hotel stays and so much more.