Ep. 95: Dynamic World of Publishing: Leadership Lessons from MSP Magazine

[00:00:00] Mall of America, it's home to world-class shopping, great dining, and amazing attractions and events. And these are our stories presented by Bloomington, Minnesota Travel and Tourism. Hey Mall of America fans, welcome to So Much More. This week's episode is very exciting. So I am Jill Renzel, your host for today's show, my co-host Dan Jasper. Hello, Dan. Hey, Jill. How you doing?

[00:00:23] I am doing great. And I am excited about our guest today because we're diving into the dynamic world of publishing, leadership, and the world of publishing. And the evolving media landscape with two influential women shaping the voice of the Twin Cities. Jane Haugen Olson, the editor in chief of Minneapolis St. Paul Magazine and president of Cities Media Group.

[00:00:43] And Shelley Crowley, publisher of Minneapolis St. Paul Magazine, are redefining what local media means from balancing tradition with innovation, community with commerce, and vision with execution. We're excited to talk to both of them as they've been friends of us as colleagues and also of Mall of America for a very long time. So welcome, ladies, to the show. Thank you. This is really fun. Thank you. It is. We were just saying what a cool spot this is. It's kind of fun, isn't it? Kind of funky.

[00:01:08] It is. It is very fun. And, you know, we've known you guys for a long time. You've been at Minneapolis St. Paul Magazine for a long time, have had different roles at the magazine. And I would love for you guys to start out by telling us what lured you to the media world, the publishing world, where you got started, and where you're at today. So, Shelley, why don't you kick us off? All right. So, for me, I went to college at UMD, Duluth. Go Gopher. Yep. Oh, Duluth. No, Bulldogs. Bulldogs. All right. Good recovery. Good recovery.

[00:01:38] Talk about editing. Can we edit that? No, no, no. That's okay. I like that I nodded because I am a Gopher fan. My daughter was in the marching band there, so I became an extra big fan. So, I was at UMD. I worked for the UMD Statesman. It was the newspaper there. And I sold advertising. And that's kind of what got me into publishing, as simple as that. And all of my positions since have been around advertising and publishing. And it's kind of a simple answer, but that's what got me in.

[00:02:07] And I was funny. This is a quick story that involves Jane. She and I were, right after college, we were roommates with a bunch of young women in Uptown and lived together in different houses, different places, way before we worked together, for about 10 years before we worked together. And I was in New York with a job that was keeping me traveling all the time. It was a publishing job. And she called me, and she's like, they are the company I work for. It's called MSP Communications, as you know. Minneapolis-St. Paul is launching a new business magazine called Twin Cities Business.

[00:02:37] Monthly at the time. They're looking for a new ad sales rep to help launch. And you'd be perfect for this. And I came in and interviewed. And that was my start at MSP Communications was in 1993, helping launch Twin Cities Business. Wonderful. So, you guys have known each other for a long time. Wow, since 1986. Yeah, 86. That is crazy. How fun to have this journey together. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. That is fantastic. So, what keeps you in this business? What is it that just motivates you and inspires you?

[00:03:05] You know, this is so cliche, but the people. I mean, for sure, I am definitely an extrovert and love being around people, making connections. People always call me a connector, and this job lets me do that. So, I'll leave it at that. The people. That's great. That's great. And Jane, how about you? How did you get started?

[00:03:24] Well, thinking about talking to you both, retail is in my blood. And I think of a lot of what I do is very retail-oriented in connecting with people and experiences and trends and all of what you do here. And, you know, when you're a kid and you're in high school, college, you need to get a restaurant job or a grocery store job. I was always retail, and I always worked retail.

[00:03:52] And so, I wanted to be an advertising copywriter. The 80s were a huge advertising community in the Twin Cities. I went to school at St. Thomas, but they didn't have advertising major at the time. So, you either had to take news editorial or PR. And so, I was more interested in news editorial. And ultimately, I became the marketing director at Calhoun Square in Uptown in 89 when it had 100 stores and the Uptown Association, the neighborhood, was extremely vibrant.

[00:04:20] I was an advertiser of Minneapolis St. Paul Magazine. And then I went to an event marketing company. We did sampling programs all over the country for General Mills. I loved telling the young people there was no internet. So, if I needed to research Miami, I had to fly to Miami and walk around and take photos and develop them at a store. But where I worked was in the same building as Minneapolis St. Paul Magazine. And the doors would open on the fourth floor in the Plymouth building on Hennepin Avenue.

[00:04:50] And I was like, I want to work there. And so, I heard that there was a job opening, and this is fall of 91. And the president, the group publisher at the time, liked that I had shopping mall experience because they wanted to create a grand opening magazine for the Mall of America.

[00:05:12] So, one of my interviews, you guys, was in his office with executives, art directors, editors, and me, the 27-year-old person interviewing for the job about what a magazine could be for the Mall of America. I did not know that. That was my interview. That was my interview. And I didn't say a whole lot because I was intimidated. Everybody left, and the gentleman who hired me said, what do you think we should do? And I gave him some, I got the job.

[00:05:41] So, thanks to you guys. They did so well in my interview. All the connections. I started January of 92, which the Super Bowl was January or February, whatever. And then you guys opened in August. Yes, yes. Big year. Yeah. That is a great story. I did not know that. That's really fun. All these years I've known you, I never knew that story. That is awesome. Well, Minneapolis-St. Paul Magazine has truly become the guide for anyone living in the Twin Cities.

[00:06:08] I mean, you guys tell us where to shop, where to dine, the must-see is like everything. So, we're so curious of how does this all come together? How do you take the ideas that you guys are exploring and that the team's bringing to you, and how does that become part of the editorial of the publication of what you're going to be featuring? Like, help us understand how do you take it from idea to the actual story?

[00:06:32] Well, one of my mentors said, a good editor knows what the reader wants before the reader knows they want it. And so, that is what's kept me around for 30 years is, I think, my innate curiosity and love of the world and culture and trends around us.

[00:06:53] So, I think, again, when I talked about retail, you're always looking for new things to excite people that bring them into your environments. And our magazine and our channels are the environments we create. And some of the things we do are annual. We always have a best-of-summer issue. So, we have to be thinking, summer 2024, what to photograph for summer 2025. Because we can't photograph.

[00:07:24] We're going to press on the June issue next week. And so, you can't photograph now. So, last year, you have to do the same one over and over every year. And you're like, you channel yourself a little bit and the team. We all, when we're brainstorming. And it's like, what are we craving? What do we think the Twin Cities are craving? What's kind of the tea leaves, if you will?

[00:07:50] And you try to repackage kind of what's the same content over and over, right? And so, last year, we said, you're getting a little sneak peek that's going to the press. We were like, let's put it all around water. Because we're the land of 10,000 lakes. And we're rivers. And, you know, all the waterways.

[00:08:09] And so, it's how to have fun in the water, on the water, as you're walking around water, watering holes, places that overlook water. You know, so it's all very water related. And so, you know, in the case of, you know, this one, Shelley was saying on the way here that inside our greatest spaces and places, we had a different idea for February that just didn't take shape.

[00:08:37] And this one kind of came together last minute. Not last minute, but in our cycle, last minute. And I think even for somebody like me, born and raised, Roosevelt girl, I still get in awe of certain buildings I walk into. And so, I know I'm not alone in that. And so, once I kind of threw the idea on the table, everybody else kind of added to it.

[00:09:02] So, we're very collaborative in our staff meetings every Tuesday and kind of throw stuff against the wall, whiteboard, and just see what everybody else gets excited about. Because if all the writers get excited, you've got something. But if only two of them do, you're not going to get that authenticity of the writing. Well, as you speak, it sounds so similar to how we challenge ourselves on a regular basis of how do we keep the content, the tenant mix, the events fresh here.

[00:09:31] And you have to try to, you know, look ahead to see how you can get ahead of what consumers want. Because if you ask them, they don't know what's possible. And so, it's very similar of that cycle. Granted, I think you have the beauty of working out a little bit farther in advance than we do. Because we're a little bit more in the moment. We're kind of are, too. So, you have to adapt. Yeah, it's a lot of similarities. But it is similar. It's like Black Friday, right? It's something that happens every year. It's huge for us, but we need to make it special and different every single year. Right.

[00:10:00] And thankfully, you do that because we look to cover it. And we find what is everybody doing so that we have exciting, interesting things to share with our audiences so that they can go. So, we're all reliant on each other. And when I used to do a lot more writing, I was the home and retail editor at one point in my career. And people would say, thank you so much for writing about me. And I'm like, thank you for having a great enough place I wanted to write about. Because I'm only as good as the story I have to tell.

[00:10:29] And so, if I write about a lousy store, people aren't going to like what I wrote. But if I find a great store that somebody else invented, I didn't invent the store. You know, our food writers, they didn't invent the menu. They didn't invent the food. They didn't create it, bake it. But they discovered it. But they're only as good as the story of the tale. So, we all work together as one big community. Absolutely. So, Shelley, for you, the publishing world has changed a lot.

[00:10:58] There's so many different forms and channels out there for readers to connect with you, whether it's the digital channels, it's the print channels. I mean, there's so many different components. And you guys continue to reinvent yourselves. What would you say has been your north star or your guiding light of how you keep things fresh and constantly look to reinvent to keep readers engaged?

[00:11:21] So, from my chair, I'm not keeping the readers engaged as much as the editors are kind of doing the keeping the readers engaged. From my chair, I'm trying to help formulate the best place for our clients to reach the audiences that we – the platforms that we have, right? So, it's so interesting. We talked about knowing each other so long and being around so long.

[00:11:43] I've been around during the days when print magazines, newspapers, radio, and television, maybe billboards are the only place you can reach these audiences. Now, there are thousands and thousands of places. So, our challenge really is to make sure that all those platforms are easily accessible and that they work, right? And we've done that really well. So, I'm not sure if that's the reason you're interested. Well, and we think about you. I mean, I think about the reader.

[00:12:12] But I also think about making sure that we're creating an environment that the businesses who support us want to also be in. And so, that's what makes our partnership is – I say Shelly's my internal client because my primary client is my audiences, but my internal client is Shelly and her team. Because if it's not an environment that the businesses who support us want to be in, then we're not going to create a viable business.

[00:12:38] And one of my favorite stories I like to tell people is when I started in 1992, the average age of our subscriber was 50. And I was in my late 20s. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, they're going to die off, right? And my boss at the time said, it's an age and a stage. And you age in and you age out of being a City Magazine reader. You kind of come in. And now, here I am, 20, 25, average age is 52. And so, I've seen it.

[00:13:05] But what's great now is because of Newsstand, which always skews about 10 years younger, and digital and social, which skews younger, now we have a longer tail to – I mean, it's like the – I was thinking – well, you're going to ask me this question later. So, I'll answer that later. But, I mean, like how I've used Mall of America over my – how many years have you been here now? 30? The mall almost – it's 33. Yeah. Coming up. 1992. Right.

[00:13:30] So, I think about how I've used it as a 30-something, 40-something, 50-something, now 60. Yeah. And you – so, it's the same way. People use our content based on kind of where they are in the stage of their life. Again, a lot of similarities. Yeah. Because, yes, we have our sweet spot of our target audience, but we need to be something for everyone. Yep. And when I look at your publication, I mean, there's always exciting content.

[00:13:55] And whether you want to flip through and read headlines or if you want to dive deeper and, you know, read all the articles, there is that experience for everybody. And it's also the content, I think, relates to lifestyles more than it does for me from an age demographic perspective. And that's how we look at it a lot of times as well because you could have somebody that's 16, 35, and 42, but they might have similar lifestyle components and still appreciate similar brands but from a different perspective.

[00:14:21] We didn't make that same connection driving over, but we talked about a similar story. And I was saying when my kids were younger, I had one daughter, Shay, who when she was a kid, she said the only thing I ever want to do on my birthday is go to the Mall of America, spend the whole day on the rise at Nickelodeon Universe. It was Not's Camp Snoopy first and then it turned Nickelodeon Universe. And then go to Rainforest Cafe and watch the monkeys and eat that funky dessert. And we did it for years and years and years.

[00:14:51] And then all of a sudden, you know, we aged out and I used the Mall of America for different reasons. But it is a stage, right? Very similar to what we do. And then you graduate to a different restaurant and a different experience and a different brand. So you bring up Nickelodeon Universe. Ironically, you knew this was coming. So you have a very fun story about the mall and talk about memories. So would you mind sharing one of your special memories with Mall of America and specifically on the log shoot? Yes.

[00:15:19] So I mentioned earlier that I started at Twin Cities Business Magazine in 1993. And in 1994, my husband came to my office and said, hey. Your boyfriend. My boyfriend. Sorry. Spoiler alert. My boyfriend came to my office and said, hey, I'm picking up Steve at the airport. I talked to your new boss, Deb Hopp. And she said, it's cool for you to leave and leave early and go pick him up. I'm like, okay, well, that's kind of odd. We get in the car.

[00:15:49] We go to pick up Steve. And he said, good news, bad news. Steve's flight is delayed. Let's stop at the Mall of America and shop a little bit, which I thought was odd. But okay. So we started walking around Nickelodeon Universe. And back in 1994, I was wearing a brown silk suit, short skirt, pantyhose, heels, you know, the whole – I'm sure I had my hair curled funny. At any rate, he said, what would be really fun? Let's go on that log shoot.

[00:16:16] And I said, over my dead body am I going on a log shoot in this outfit. Do you see what I'm wearing? Do you see what I'm wearing? Yes. And I always described that there was a blue plastic kind of bench that you had to straddle. It's kind of wet. I'm like, I'm just not going to. And he pushed and pushed and pushed to the point where I thought, okay. What is going on here? He's really – he's urging – Got something up his sleeve. Something up his sleeve. So I straddle that wet little blue log shoot bench. And sure enough, we go up.

[00:16:46] And Tom – we get to the very top. We're just going to go down past Ball Bunyan. And Tom turns around with the ring box. And he says something about taking the plunge and wanting to marry me. And the young man in the booth yells over the microphone, sir, I need you to turn around. This is my job in your life. Tom's like, but I – he said, turn around. So we turned around. We went down and we're engaged. So that was our engagement story. And I remember when you told me that story.

[00:17:14] It seems to me, did you actually say I do or I will or yes as you were going down? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. We've got the – and back then there was nothing digital. So we had to buy the mug and little key chain. I love it. And, you know, all the pictures that we have are – I should have brought one of the – the mug in. That's awesome. It's such a great story. I love it. And that's the thing is there's so many memories that are made here. And, Jane, you've been with us doing stories for years. I'm curious if you have a favorite to share.

[00:17:42] Oh, you know, my memory is good and bad all at the same time. Mall of America, it's like I have done so many different things here. I think about different fashion shows and things that have been in the theater. And I think about, oh, one Mall of America thing. You were a part of this too. There was a contest that you guys had. It was like a girlfriend getaway. It was a pajama thing. And we got – remember? It was a mall and it was a contest.

[00:18:09] And you guys helped host women to all get on a Sun Country flight. Yes, I remember that. And we had the Karen Newberg whatever pajamas. And we went to like Tulum, Mexico. And Shelly and my friend, our friend Trish, we all did that. So that was a really fun trip. I do remember that. You get to travel with Jane Haugen Olsen from the magazine. I remember that, all the pajamas. Yeah. We helped you celebrate your 25th birthday with a Guinness book of world records.

[00:18:39] We had, I don't know how many hundreds of people making cupcakes and frosting them. Yep. Yeah, that was fun. We actually set two world records that day. That was awesome. I think so, didn't we? Was that at the party hats? I think it was the party hats and the cupcakes. We're great about world records. We'll make them up if we need to. We love that. Do anything big and exciting. Dan, you always say we have the world record for the most- We're the unofficial side of the place with the most world records in the world, unofficially speaking. Ooh, that's good.

[00:19:08] There are attorneys involved, right? I think you need a t-shirt that says that. Have you been on a Mall of America tour? Yeah. Dan does give the best tours. Oh, wow. He has the best tours. And you can actually go online and book a tour. You can. I want to ask for you to be the tour guide. Yeah, just ask for me whenever you want. He's always available. That's all right. For tours. I love it. So let's talk a little bit about the best of. This is for May, right? The May publication. Oh, I tell you. The cover.

[00:19:37] The cover. That camera. I, my, so my husband's office is downtown and post-COVID he was trying to get people excited about coming to work again. So he ended up getting some season, like a half season tickets for the twins. So I got to go to some of the games and I fell in love with TC Bear. I mean, who doesn't love TC Bear? Then he got, then of course, Timberwolves sniffed him out and they were like, you need to now have season tickets to the Timberwolves.

[00:20:07] So last year we did that. And now Crunch is pretty awesome too, right? But they're for different reasons. So I was on this mascot thing and I was like, we need to do a group photo with all the mascots. And it turned into months of us debating who officially could be in the mascot photo. And I said, well, you have to have Fairchild. I got overruled. They were like, he's not pro sports.

[00:20:35] And we're like, okay, well, you have to have Goldie Gopher, but he's not pro sports. I'm like, well, Goldie Gopher has to be in it. So then they were like, well, but then you have to have another D1 school. And I'm like, nope, we're drawing the line. St. Thomas doesn't get to be in. Goldie Gopher's been around since the 50s. So we have this great group shot that we did for Big Picture that was at First Ave. And we knew we were going to do this.

[00:21:01] And then when we decided it was going to be the best of, we decided to have one of the readers' polls be who is their favorite mascot. And so who knows when this show is going to air, but they voted Goldie Gopher as the favorite mascot. And First Ave also was voted favorite concert venue, of course. And so our creative director was like, well, we have to photograph all the mascots at First Ave.

[00:21:29] And this is a true story. So Prowl, I think, is the links. And Crunch came over in their costumes already because of the proximity. Goldie required a separate entrance and separate green room so that nobody would know who they were inside the Gopher outfit. That is fantastic. But then afterwards, that person did come out and talk to everybody else.

[00:21:56] But on the way, it was very secretive who was going to be so that you didn't get lost in the magic of Goldie. And at the last minute, they were like, let's go outside and get one shot. And then that's the one we had for the cover. That's great. Yeah. So a couple of things on that. First of all, I think Minnesota has some of the best mascots ever. And I'm curious if other marketplaces allow them to come together because being in the IP world with Nickelodeon, you cannot typically have them share the same space together.

[00:22:26] So seeing these mascots all be together is great. And I think just an athletic, it's great. But I learned a fun fact that I didn't realize that there was a twins mascot before TC Bear. So I learned that in that episode. So you'll have to read the episode to learn what the first mascot was. But also, fun fact, Prowl has the same birthday that I do. Oh. So September 2nd. Yeah. I learned because we were at a Lynx game and they were celebrating her birthday. And I'm like, this is pretty cool. That's really cool. I have the same birthday as Prowl. So very, very fun. Yeah.

[00:22:54] Madison Blomquist, who wrangled, it took like two months for her to work with all the different PR companies. And not to pat ourselves on the back, but I do think that they all recognize the value of being on the cover of Minneapolis St. Paul Magazine. And so it's like, okay, maybe we'll kind of figure out, you know. And again, I think it speaks to the community of the Twin Cities. And so it was fun. Yeah.

[00:23:18] Well, we're going to bring out our best next year because we took second place in some of those. Boom, boom, boom. Yeah. So we don't like second place. So we're going to have to bring our A game next year and figure out how we need it. I mean, we're the same way. Silver. Who wants silver? Yeah. We want gold. First loser. Yeah. I live in a sports family. Second place is first loser. We actually want platinum. That's what we want. We're not. Yeah. We're going to surpass the gold. We love platinum. We're going to make up our own category. So get ready. We're going to take over next year.

[00:23:47] So I would love, before we go into, we have a little fun rapid fire round. But before we do that, I would love for both of you to share just some advice from being female leaders in this marketplace and really, really making a difference in our community. And just if there's any advice that you have for other young professionals that are looking to go into publishing or in the media world, any advice that you have or things that you would just like to inspire them with? So Shelly, why don't you start?

[00:24:16] So advice that I would give to a young professional who wants to get into publishing would be, you know what? You're not in it for the money. I can tell you that. But for the experience and the fun and the learning and the community, it is better than a 10 out of 10. I mean, I wouldn't have stayed in this career for as long as I had if that weren't the case. I just had an informational interview with a young woman this morning. And I kind of pinched myself, I surprised myself at how giddy I get about talking about this industry

[00:24:45] and how fun it is and how much I've gotten out of it. So, you know, get to do it, to jump in if that sounds interesting. Also, it's a great jumping off point for digital marketing sales, marketing positions, client services. It's just a really great kind of incubator for that. That's great. Jane, how about you? Oh, I mean, a lot of the same things that you said, Shelley.

[00:25:13] I think that you have to be a journalist and to be, you know, we're not deep news stories, right? So you have to be genuinely curious. You have to have your antenna up. It's that whether you're a trend-creating person in the retail space or restaurant space, you have to be always thinking and innovating. And so, like I said, you're not creating the stories, but you have to be curious enough

[00:25:43] to turn over rocks and look behind things and question things and want to tell stories. I mean, ultimately, yes, we're writers. But if you're not a good storyteller, you know, there's editors who can help your story sound better. And writing a book or writing a screenplay is different than maybe writing a 350-word piece. How do you make that? So you have to have voice. You have to be a good storyteller.

[00:26:14] And getting the start is hard because there's not a lot of turnover in this market and there's not a lot of roles in this market, thankfully, with video and podcasts and all the different new media channels that are out there. It allows people to get into the space and find their way to share stories. I got an email this morning from a high school senior who wants to know she's interested in

[00:26:40] journalism and she writes for her school paper and they have one of those two-week programs for the seniors. She wanted to know if she could come, you know, just be with us for two weeks. We work hybrid, so it's not as dynamic as an environment of then, you know, your environment here where you guys are here and it's open pretty much 365. That's part of what I do miss about hybrid. We're always about town in our jobs, but we're not having as much office time together.

[00:27:09] And so we're still kind of working through that, but being immersed in your community and wanting to share those stories and be a booster of your community, I think is something that drives everybody that we work with. That's great. And one other thing before we get to the rapid fire, I wanted to get some quick trends and picks from you guys. So what right now in the Twin Cities is flying under the radar that we should all be aware of? Anything that you would share with us? Talk about your vintage.

[00:27:40] Well, I guess an under the radar is that people might not realize that the area of Northeast that I always... Because Northeast is so big. Yes, it is. It's like, where Northeast? So my generation was like, well, the area by Surtex, right? Oh, okay. Well, now they're really rebranding themselves as Old Town and they have a website and there's more restaurants that have been coming into St. Anthony, Maine and along Main Street there. There are a number of vintage stores that are around.

[00:28:09] Actually, 12 vultures, one a silver. It's a really interesting, quirky place. My niece happens to work there. But Adam, who owns that store, used to be at Hunt and Gather and he had a booth in Hunt and Gather. And of course, Hunt and Gather has got its own little national cult following of a vintage store. But he has his own place and Saturday Dumpling Club, which maybe you've read about, is right next to them.

[00:28:37] So I would say that Old Town is a fun place, especially this summer, to connect with the river. And one of my favorite stores is a consignment store up there, GH2. So it's kind of different, independent kind of places that are great. How about food trend that you are loving right now? Either one of you. Oh, Shelly, you're the... You are... We need one of our food and dining editors.

[00:29:06] I mean, I would say probably food trend. I go right to what I like. What is that? What I like is sushi. I mean, I don't know if that's a trend anymore, but it's... I think it's always a trend. It's my go-to. Well, I think Billy Sushi would say it is. Yeah, Billy Sushi would definitely say it was a trend. Yeah, I mean, I think that we did an Asian food story two Augusts ago.

[00:29:33] Stephanie March was like, there's enough going on in this town that warrants a cover story. And you think about what Diane has done with Diane's Place and Ia Vang is... I mean, there's just a lot going on where for maybe 20 years ago, it was Chinese and Japanese. And now you've got Hmong food and Thai food. And here we are in Scandinavia country.

[00:30:01] And what we've seen change in the food culture, especially with Asian food, I think is what's been really growing. Yeah, like Saturday Dumpling Club, same thing. They started just as like a food truck or just coming on Saturdays to pick up. You have to check it out because you can get them to go and you can get them in the bags and bring them home and make them with your family. Fantastic. Are you guys ready for some rapid fire? All right. We're going to round it out here. So I'll say two things. You tell me which one you prefer or that you would have personal picks.

[00:30:30] So coffee or cocktails? Coffee. Coffee. Coffee. Dan, what do we do? Coffee. Okay. Early riser or night owl? Night owl. Night owl. Night owl. Night owl. Very early riser. Early riser. Last show you binged? Paradise. I don't even know that one. That's so good. Oh, well, I'm not much of a binger. So I like to spread them out.

[00:30:59] But I was just severance and of course... White Lotus by any chance. Yes. Yes. That's been the topic of our office. Gun smoke? I'm kidding. I'm like, in this decade and this decade. Probably Ted Lasso. I love it. Favorite local restaurant? We just kind of talked a little bit about restaurants, but do you have a favorite? I have so many. I live in Edina, so I'm going to go with Amasushi and Rog, the two that I go to a lot.

[00:31:28] The one we go to the most, my husband's office is near Red Rabbit and he's there all the time. And he has free parking behind his building in the warehouse district. So last night I met him at Red Rabbit. I mean, I got there first and they're like, hi, Jane, when's Kurt coming? We go to Yum a lot. But then, you know, we're sushi fans as well. So, yeah. I have a really good place in Plymouth near my home called Nong's, N-O-N-G, apostrophe S. Great Thai food. A local favorite. Yeah. Love it.

[00:31:58] Okay. Shifting to the mall. Roller coaster at Nickelodeon Universe or log shoot or a deep tissue massage at Solomar Spa? Oh, massage for me. I have to say log shoot. Roller coaster. Perfect. Shopping spree or people watching? Shopping spree. Shopping spree. People watching. Celebrity sighting or unexpected performance? Ooh, both. Celebrity sighting. Celebrity sighting. Unexpected performance. I'm the one on. We see the one on. Sorry.

[00:32:28] I love it. Best MOA snack? Cinnabon, Dippin' Dots, or Shake Shack Fries? Shake Shack Fries. Shake Shack Fries. Cinnabon on Black Friday. You just have to be something different, right? Okay. And if you had a secret hideaway in MOA, where would it be? A secret hideaway, again, if you've been on the tour, I'm going to say kind of that back room where you can see Paul Bunyan. Okay. Back to the log shoot again. Back to the log shoot behind the scenes. I don't have any secrets. Secrets.

[00:33:01] Well, when we were looking at some of the questions, my secret, which is not a secret, but I feel like it is, is I feel like such a little fancy pants to use the valet and come up that elevator behind the anthropology. I always feel like I'm coming in like a secret door. It's a great secret, though. I love it. It's very convenient, especially on Saturdays when it's super busy. Dan, what's your secret place? For me, Capital One Cafe. It's just a great place on a busy, busy day to have some quiet time. You know what? Holiday shopping, I feel the same way.

[00:33:30] You kind of just kind of get tucked in and you forget you're in the wall. I took the secret hideaway literally, like where I would hide. That would be under my desk. We love that. Well, there's been lots of secrets shared today and a lot of great ideas and advice and tidbits to find with Minneapolis-St. Paul magazine. So I highly recommend to follow them on the digital channels. Pick up a print copy. Take a look at it.

[00:33:56] But honestly, we're so honored to work with you guys for so many years and just looking forward to the future of creating content together. So Shelly, Jane, thank you so much for your time. And that's going to do it for this episode of So Much More. So be sure to share with your family and friends. It's such great information to share. And tune in next time. Thanks for listening to So Much More, a Mall of America podcast. Subscribe wherever you find your favorite podcasts. This show is presented by Bloomington, Minnesota Travel and Tourism.