Ep. 90: Ingrid Christensen: The Power of Using the Right Language

[00:00:00] Mall of America, it's home to world-class shopping, great dining, and amazing attractions and events. And these are our stories presented by Bloomington, Minnesota Travel and Tourism. Welcome fans to so much more. I am your host today, Jill Renslow, and I'm joined by the ever so popular Dan Jasper. You guys all know Dan. Welcome. Hey, Jill. How are you? Good. You've been busy today. I think you had a couple of tours already today. I've had three tours today. It's been busy. So we're pleased to have you on the podcast yet again.

[00:00:29] And today we're talking with a local business leader who is an entrepreneur and advocate who's passionate about providing equal access to information to everyone, no matter what language they speak. She's written a book called The Language of Trust and is an active member in the Twin Cities business community. And so we are very happy and excited to talk to president and founder of Inco International, Ingrid Christensen. So welcome, Ingrid. Thank you so much. I couldn't think of a better place to be this afternoon.

[00:00:57] I hope you don't mind. I had to do a little shopping on my way in. We love that. Shop when you leave too. You're welcome to stay as long as you would like. Thank you. That's very kind. And Ingrid and I have known each other for years. So we met with the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce years ago and have continued to follow each other with other women's networks and leadership and business. And it's been so much fun to see you thrive as an entrepreneur. And that's what we want to talk about today. We want to learn all about you, your story, and how you got started. So let's start there.

[00:01:27] Dial us back to when you had that spark of interest to follow the path of becoming an entrepreneur. Well, happy to wind my memory back about 20 years. So I started the company 19 years ago, but I probably got the seed planted 20-ish years ago. So I have worked in the language service industry for about 25 years.

[00:01:53] One of the funny things is I've actually never had a job. I've never worked for anyone except for like in high school I was, okay. I was going to say, I hope like in high school. I've had a few jobs. Okay, so I was a babysitter. Okay. I worked as a server at a sports bar and I was not good at that at all. So that didn't last very long. And then I taught aerobics back in the 90s. So the-

[00:02:22] And you learned that you just didn't want to work for someone. Oh, I just never had the opportunity. I just, it's not that I didn't want to. It just never, it never happened. So right after I graduated from college, I started as a Spanish interpreter. And then it slowly, this is where I'm going to answer your question. So then I started getting a lot of work, more work than I could handle. And I started hiring colleagues that I knew. And then people started asking me if I knew people that spoke other languages.

[00:02:51] And of course it's a small industry, so I did. So kind of, well, very much without a plan and without really thinking about it, I had a business. And so it was 19 years ago in February that I walked into the Secretary of State with my paperwork, halfway filled out, and I decided to open this business. That's fantastic. And I just love the fact that you found your dream early and just followed that path.

[00:03:18] But I would imagine throughout that process, you had mentors that helped guide you. And how did you learn all the things that you need to do when you own and work a business? Yeah, by failure. For example, I didn't know that I had to pay business taxes. So that was a problem when I realized that I actually had to save some money to pay business taxes. So yeah, I learned through failure. I learned through making mistakes and fixing those mistakes.

[00:03:45] I learned quickly that I needed to have a support group. I needed a peer group of people around me. So I've always invested time and resources into a variety of different peer groups. And that's really been kind of the backbone, like a support system. I call it my professional support group. But then also really guiding the company on what did I want to do?

[00:04:11] Because when I started, I never intended to be doing this 19 years later. I don't know what I intended, but I don't think that this was ever a figment of my imagination. So talk more about what is Inco International. Who are your customers? If I was a client, what types of services would you provide to me? Yeah, yeah. So we are a full service language solutions organization. We provide anything from one language to another in about 200 different languages.

[00:04:41] Our clients, the majority of our clients are corporate. It's about 60% corporate clients. About 40% of our clients are public entities. So school districts, social services, nonprofits, healthcare facilities, anything that kind of falls. Cities, states, municipalities, counties. That's kind of in that bucket. I like to say that there's three main pillars to the services that we offer. One is document translation. So that's anything written.

[00:05:07] That could be a contract, a website, marketing material, packaging, anything that's written from one language to another. The second area is interpreting. Interpreting and interpreting could be a face-to-face appointment in a hospital. It could be over the phone, like call 1-800 and press 1 for Spanish. We have a 24-7, 365 days a year service that's on demand in about 65 different languages.

[00:05:34] And of course, since COVID, a lot of our work happens online in a virtual setting. So whether it's on Zoom or a number of other different platforms, there's a lot of virtual services in there as well. And then the third kind of bucket is voiceover, subtitling, desktop publishing, localization, all the other fun things that don't fall neatly in one of the other two categories.

[00:05:58] Well, we've talked a lot about communication on this podcast from a variety of different channels, whether it's how you show up on LinkedIn and how you communicate with that community, how you communicate internally with different generations, how do you communicate on social media, and how do you use emojis or punctuation or not punctuation. And it's been such a fascinating conversation. And Dan, you've led our tourism team in the past. You lead a ton of tours as we talked about as we started off this podcast.

[00:06:25] Like being able to connect with people, communication is so important. But what have you found for us here at Mall of America? We have so many different tourists that come from different destinations. That communication and the gap with possibly with translation things. Talk a little bit about our experience here. We do. And I like to put it that we have a lot of opportunity here because about 40% of our guests are tourists, right? Doesn't mean they all speak other languages. Most of them speak English or at least English as a secondary language.

[00:06:54] But we have a lot of guests that speak foreign language. I shouldn't say foreign languages, other languages. When I interact with guests, primarily Spanish is huge for us. There's a big Spanish speaking, Somali, and then the European languages, of course, German, Italian, French. Those are all really big that I've run across here at Mall of America. And I love it because I walk through the mall and I just interact with guests. And sometimes they don't speak the language.

[00:07:22] And I wish I had someone like Ingrid where I could call that number and just say, let me help you. I use my phone somewhat. There's translation devices on there. But I have to tell you the most critical one for me is another part-time thing I do at Mall of America is I play Santa Claus. Oh, no. Yes, I do. Wait. Doesn't he look like Santa in the summertime? I really do. I thought Santa was real. And Santa is real. Okay, good. Thank you.

[00:07:57] I have a lot of experience where we have some Santas that speak other languages, including one who uses sign language. And it's really important to connect with our guests where they are. Absolutely. Right? And that's why I think your services are so unique and so special because connection is what it's all about. Yeah. So talk to us about companies like Mall of America that have an international guest that's coming through our doors every day. There's a lot of organizations that work B2B with other international companies from a global perspective.

[00:08:25] How do they reach out to your service and what can you provide? What guidance do you have? Because you have worked with us in the past and it's been very helpful for us to lean into that space to figure out those different translation services, especially from a digital perspective for us. That's how we've used it. But talk a little bit about that of companies like Mall of America or like us, how you'd work with them. Well, even just walking through the mall this afternoon briefly, I heard at least four or five different languages spoken.

[00:08:50] And so we know that the world is a wide, vast place and there's a lot of people that speak a lot of different languages. The mall is an experience, right? The people come here to experience a variety of things and there's a number of things to experience when you're here. So I think when we think about language access and language equitability, we think about how can we make the experience for all guests the same?

[00:09:17] And how can we speak to people the way that they want to be spoken to? It's really no different than marketing 101. We want to speak into the hearts and the minds of the people that are here that are experiencing the mall and we want them to get all the advantages of the mall that they would if they only spoke English or whatever their language is. So I think that that's kind of the key driver.

[00:09:38] And we're starting to see, well, over the past decade or so organizations really understanding that language services is a revenue driver, not necessarily a cost center. Because when organizations pay attention and they speak the language of their customers, they can sell more products and services. The experience is better.

[00:09:58] And so when you think about it from a spectrum of services that you can offer when you're speaking the language of those individuals, then they're going to spend more money. They're going to stay here longer. They're going to tell their friends and family. And they're going to come back and they're going to have a better experience, which is what I think the mall wants, right? You want everybody to have a positive and fun experience.

[00:10:21] So there's lots of different ways that organizations use language services, whether they're training staff. That's a big thing that we see. We work in a lot of HR departments because they want to make sure that their staff understands rules and regulations. There's a lot of safety training. There's a lot of understanding benefits. And so the employees feel like they're welcome.

[00:10:46] So we know that employees stay longer and they're more engaged if they are trained and spoken to in the language that they speak. But certainly there's a lot of marketing that is in a lot of different languages. There's a lot of educational organizations, really anything. I like to kind of bring it down to, this is a very basic example, but a banana.

[00:11:11] How many different people does a banana touch from that journey from the jungle to Whole Foods? Right? It touches a lot of different people and there's a lot of different people that speak different languages along that trajectory. So that's a perfect example. We don't think about that, right? No, no. We think we go to Whole Foods and pick up our banana and it's there miraculously. But a lot of different cultures and people that speak other languages. Absolutely. That's a good reminder.

[00:11:39] Yeah, from the people that are in the back of the warehouse unloading the truck to the people that are picking the banana to the people that are planting the banana to all the different business transactions that go on on your little banana. Yeah. You brought up as far as, you know, translating content from like even a benefits perspective. That's sometimes hard to understand just from an English perspective. Yeah. Truly.

[00:12:02] I mean, we're constantly having our HR departments trying to help us understand what does that mean for you and where your stage in life. So I can't even imagine for people that that's not your first language to help understand those. I understand where that could really come in really helpful. I saw you cringe a little bit when Dan talked about going to Google when he was looking for translations. Sorry. So talk to us and give us your advice on, you know, for just consumers or fans or, you know, if we have needs on a daily basis. Yeah.

[00:12:31] What is the caution that you put out there for the tools that are very accessible to all of us that may seem like a great resource but that we have to be a little careful with? Well, first of all, attempting to speak to people in the language of their preference is not bad, no matter the tool that you use. And so you're utilizing the tools that you have at your fingertips and that's amazing, right? Insisting or trying to have a conversation with somebody in English and they don't speak English, that's not going to get you anywhere.

[00:13:00] So I recognize that there's a place for tools like Google Translate. You know, if you're in another country trying to read a menu, it's fine. That's a perfect purpose for it. Where it's not a perfect purpose is for an organization that is selling a product or service and the communication has to be correct. Yeah.

[00:13:20] So can you imagine, and this has happened, if you fall and break your hip in Spain and the doctors don't speak English and you don't speak Spanish and you're trying to understand what's going on via Google Translate. So Google Translate, even in the best languages, is about 40% accurate. So I know for sure, like if I have a broken leg or a broken hip, I want it to be more than 40% accurate.

[00:13:46] A lot of our clients are making major life decisions thanks to the communication that we're providing, right? They're sending their kiddos to school. They are choosing life decisions based on the information that a doctor can provide them. They're accepting a job or not based on the benefits or leaving a job.

[00:14:08] We hear, I hear a lot of, from a lot of manufacturing organizations actually within Minnesota, that employees that don't speak English and they don't have the benefits translated. For example, they might just quit when they're pregnant because they don't know that there's a such thing as maternity leave. So something like that where it's so hard to get employees, you want to keep them. You really need to think about it from a greater perspective. Mm-hmm.

[00:14:33] There's been examples where we've had good intentions and had signage of the mall around cultural events or holiday celebrations, and we quickly learned that the translation was not accurate, even though we were trying to—because there's different dialects as well. Yeah. And it was—but we had to quickly pivot because it was not our intent, but it actually translated in an inappropriate way. Yeah, we were trying to do something good, but— It backfired on us.

[00:15:02] Their culture, they read it differently. Yeah. And so we had to change gears. But to your point, I think at least when we're trying, that's one side of things, but to use the right services to make sure that you're as accurate as possible. And I think understanding the level of acuity, right? If it's—if you're running across or talking to an individual in the mall and showing them how to get to the roller coaster, that's one thing. Mm-hmm. But printing large signage and offending people is a very different thing. Yeah. Right?

[00:15:31] That definitely affects the experience. Absolutely. Well, you have taken years of experience and put that together in a book recently. And I know that was quite the task as we have also realized that putting a book together is not an easy task, but very rewarding. You have brought to the community the book called The Language of Trust.

[00:15:51] And I personally have read it, and I just—a lot of components resonated with me because of our role here and some of the things that we've been able to interact with more of the global audience. So talk to us about that journey of making that decision and holding yourself accountable to get to the finish line with a book that you authored. Before I get there, I want to just kind of explain how I got to this concept of trust.

[00:16:17] So my very first interpreting assignment was at the Children's Hospital in Minneapolis. And I walked into the exam room, and I saw this beautiful baby girl, and she was sobbing in the arms of her very worried and super confused parents. They had no idea what was going on. And the doctor was also bewildered. He had no way to communicate. And the minute that I started interpreting, I could see the fear and the confusion melt from their faces. And I saw or I witnessed for the first time the power of communication and trust building.

[00:16:47] And that has been a concept that stuck with me for 25 years. And finally, I decided to do something about it because how long do you say you're going to write a book? Usually you say you're going to write a book for— Years. Years. Years and years. It's a long, tedious, terrible, terrible experience for those of us that are not authors, right? I don't know about you, but I felt oftentimes that I just—I don't have any more words to say. Like, I'm out of words.

[00:17:15] And I wanted to quit many times. But I also made a promise to myself, which is something that I learned in the research of writing the book. And I started researching trust and what is it? How do you get it? How do you keep it? If you lose it, how do you get it back? And one of the most important aspects of trust is trusting thyself and holding yourself accountable to the things you say you're going to do.

[00:17:42] And the power that the—in the brain synopsis that occur in the amygdala—and there's lots of, like, deep science around this—that when you say you're going to do something and you do it, it is—it can be life-changing. And so I learned this during the research process, and I realized that I have to just finish this book. And I realized also that done is better than perfect towards the end. Yes. So it's my first book. It's fine. And it's great. It's great. It's great.

[00:18:12] It's done. And I pushed it over the edge, and I published it. And actually, my publisher just emailed me yesterday asking if I wanted to write a second book. And? No. Not today! Not today. I love it. Not today. But what I love is it's giving you a platform to do a lot of speaking engagements.

[00:18:29] And I think we learned that as well, when you have that element that you can tie it back to, and people can have their opportunity to have their own space with it and read it and relate it to their world and then also connect with you and then build on that. I think it's really powerful. So how has that been for you this past year of just opening the doors to be able to share your word with audiences that you wouldn't have touched otherwise? It's amazing.

[00:18:56] I have spoken in eight different countries on the concept of trust. Actually, I just got back from Mexico City. I never in my life imagined that I would be speaking on global stages about trust. So from that aspect alone, it's been absolutely incredible because it's just opened up doors and opportunity that I never thought would ever be there.

[00:19:17] And I don't know about you, but when the book first came out, there's so much PR and there's so much, almost more right after the book is published than before. So tons of podcasts and articles and interviews. There was a lot of speaking right from the get-go. I almost felt like I had to back off because I'm also running a business, right? I'm not a full-time author or speaker. So I had to balance that out.

[00:19:44] But two years out, I'm still speaking on the book multiple times a year. So that's been a really great opportunity. Well, the one thing that really resonated with me when you talk about trust, and Dan and I have talked about this and we laugh about it because oftentimes we'll have international guests and we'll be presenting to them about Mall of America, whether they are coming to be a tenant or if they have an event or if they're becoming a partner from a different perspective.

[00:20:08] And so we have somebody in-house that has helped us with the Asian community in doing translations. And there's been oftentimes where we're presenting. And it's an awkward situation because you have to pause versus having a fluid presentation because you have to give that time to the interpreter to be able to translate for you. And so you go through your presentation and there will be moments where you're presenting and it's just basic content. And all of a sudden they translate it and the audience is laughing.

[00:20:37] And you're like, wait a second. I really didn't say anything that was that funny. So what just happened in that translation process? So it's happened to both of us. We laugh about it because it's the same person that was translating for us. But you're like, okay, can I trust this person to really capture what I'm trying to present? But I'm like, I have no idea what they're saying. Yeah, we would share a rather long thought on a topic. Yes. And then this person's translation might be eight seconds long.

[00:21:07] And then they all burst out laughing and it's like, pretty sure that wasn't what I said. And I'm sure it happens all the time. Yeah. But, I mean, if there's any advice in that space. Please. Well, yes.

[00:21:23] If somebody is not a trained linguist and they don't have certification around the quote of ethics and the pedagogy that is the art of interpreting and translating, that unfortunately can happen. And we hear all the time that we just grab bilingual staff here and there and have them serve as an interpreter or translator. And there's a lot of different reasons why that's not a good idea.

[00:21:49] One, the example you just gave, you know, you're probably not in a position. It's not high stakes. So I think it's probably fine. But imagine that you were interpreting for a dignitary or a president or a doctor or in the court system or in a different setting in a school. The interpreters have a lot of responsibility.

[00:22:12] And so we put a lot of requirements on those interpreters and we test them and we vet them and we make sure that they have continuing education and we get a lot of feedback on them and we shadow them and we do all the things to make sure that they're really effective professional linguists to make sure that that doesn't happen. And I think you said you translate 65 languages or somewhere in that a lot, right?

[00:22:37] And then how many people do you use within your system and are they trained and continually updated with their credentials? Yes. Okay. So we serve about 200 languages on a yearly basis. It kind of ebbs and flows. And yes, we work with about 3,000 1099 contractors in a given year. So lots of 1099s that are sent out.

[00:22:59] And yes, we have a whole department that works on recruiting and testing and vetting and making sure that not only do they have the bilingual language skills, but they have the industry skills. They know how to do the work that they're doing. And there's a whole lot of other things. We have to do background checks. We have to make sure people's vaccinations are up to date, right? They're going in and out of hospitals, in and out of different settings.

[00:23:25] A lot of our interpreters are going in and out of jails, in and out of a wide variety of things. So we have to make sure all of that is correct. And then we have to make sure that their subject matter expertise is appropriate for the assignment. Because the person that is interpreting for the mall of America is probably not the same person that is translating biochemical information, for example. Sure. I understand the lingo.

[00:23:52] Well, as a female CEO, leader within this community, inspiring author, what type of advice would you give to those that are finishing high school, starting their college path, if that's what they choose to do, or just what their future is after high school? Maybe wanting to be an entrepreneur. What is your advice? I think it boils down to a couple things. One, say yes and figure it out.

[00:24:18] If you're a say no kind of person, then probably entrepreneurship isn't for you. As your business expands, you have to say yes a lot less. But at the beginning, you have to really say yes and figure things out. I think number two, recognize that time kills deals.

[00:24:36] And so the speed at which you can connect with people and respond to people and hold yourself highly accountable on a certain pace, I think that you'll be very successful in your entrepreneurship.

[00:24:49] I also think that women in particular, and especially young women, need to become much more comfortable asking questions, asking the hard questions, having the courage to ask the questions, having the courage to ask somebody to be their mentor, having the courage to ask for promotion, having the courage to ask for feedback.

[00:25:12] I just recently read a study that it was kind of linking women's, it's not the inability, but it would maybe be with the volume that women just tend to ask less questions in the workplace than men do. And that naturally leads to taking less risk. Because at the end of the day, it's all about risk taking and putting yourself out there. And grit. You got to have a lot of grit.

[00:25:40] You will never be as passionate. No one will ever be as passionate about your business as you are. And so you really have to stick with it. And I call it in the book, the stick with it-ness. You've got to, if you say you're going to do something, you have to see it through. I love that. Thank you. So to wrap up this episode, I have a little fun game for y'all. I'm feeling very nervous about this game. Because I love games. And this is for everybody to play along with.

[00:26:08] So our production team, I'm going to challenge you guys. For all of our listeners and viewers, it's always fun to play along with games because we love little healthy competitions. So this is called Lost in Translation. So what I did is I took common phrases. So it could be just a common idiom or saying or a slogan. So you'll get to choose which one you want to do. And then I put that phrase into Google Translate. And so I put it into a different language, then reverted it back to English.

[00:26:38] And so it changed it a little bit. So I'm going to tell you what the translation was. You have to guess what the original saying or slogan was. So I will start off with a common... You have to press any buttons or do anything? So you have to holler out your name. Oh, okay. So whoever hollers it out first gets the chance to win. I don't have a pen. So I need you guys, my team over there, if you guys can keep score. Because we obviously want a winner out of this. And then if you win it, then you get a pick, whether it's a saying or a slogan for the next one. So we'll just do a few of these.

[00:27:07] So I'll give you an example so you can kind of understand what I'm looking for. So the translation was, the sphere is in your field. So the original is... The ball is in your court. The ball is in your court. Dan. I feel like... Okay. All right. So what helps is think about the nouns and the verbs in the translation. It'll help you kind of revert it back. So Dan, since you got the practice round, do you want a common saying or a slogan? A slogan. Okay. So... Here we go.

[00:27:37] Of course you have to go to my next page. We're on. Okay. I'm taking you down. And then simply perform this. Me. Ingrid. Yes. Just do it. Woo-hoo. She's got it. Good one. Nicely done. Nike. Just do it. Okay. Do you want slogan or saying? Slogan for 200. Done it. Dissolves in your lips, not in your palms. Dan. Ingrid. I heard a mm-mm kind of over here, but Dan said his name first. Melt in your mouth, not in your hands. You got it. M&M's. Slogan or saying? We're going to do with a saying now. Okay.

[00:28:08] Fracture your limb. Dan. Dan. Break a leg. You got it. Woo. Let's do a slogan. Okay. So delicious, you must lick your fingers. Oh, Ingrid. Yes. Finger licking good. Well done, KFC. Yes. Slogan or sane? Oh, sane. Okay. I got to get rid of all my papers. Release the feline from the sack. Sack. Oh. Think feline. Sack. I love it, Dan. Oh, okay. I got to think Ingrid.

[00:28:36] You guys can't even figure out how to say your name. Let the cat out of the bag. Yes. It was really bad because they knew it like 10 seconds before we did it. All the noises come out, but their names do not. What's my name? Slogan. Okay. The most joyful location on the planet. Ingrid. Dan. Sorry. Happiest place on earth. Yes. Disney. Okay. A couple more and then we're done. You can pick the category. Sane. Oh, me? Yeah. Okay. Sane. Lighting or lighting the night's fuel.

[00:29:10] Lighting the night's fuel. I don't know this one. Lighting the night's fuel. When you work really late at night, you're- Oh, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan. Dan. Burning the midnight candle. Burning the midnight oil. Burning the candle at both ends. Well, you got it wrong the first time. It was oil, but we're going to get that one. And to no one. Give it to our guest. Okay. Oh, it's fine. I didn't win it. Slogan, one more. One more slogan. Experience the flavors of color. Oh, Ingrid. Yes. It's the Skittles.

[00:29:40] The flavors of the rainbow. Taste the rainbow. Yes. Taste the rainbow. We'll give it to her. That was good. Okay. And then last one is going to be chew the metal projectile. Dan. Yes. Bite the bullet. You got it. You got it. You got it. So there is our loss in translation. Kevin, who's our winner today? Yes, Dan. But we're going to give it to Ingrid because she's our guest. It's a tie. Hopefully she'll come back so we don't want her to lose. But no. Super fun. And Ingrid, thank you so much for joining us on So Much More.

[00:30:10] So for our listeners and followers that want to learn more about you, learn more about your book, where do you recommend that they go? Well, you can find me on social under Ingrid Christensen. I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram and all the places. Our website is incointernational.com. And our book is sold at, my book, is sold at all sorts of booksellers, including Amazon and Barnes & Noble and all the places. And remember, it's called The Language of Trust. The Language of Trust. Love it. Well, thank you again, Dan. Thank you for joining. Lots of fun.

[00:30:39] And thank you to all of our fans on So Much More. So be sure to follow us wherever you listen to your podcasts. And definitely tune in next time for more fun with all of us here at Mall of America. Thanks for listening to So Much More, a Mall of America podcast. Subscribe wherever you find your favorite podcasts. This show is presented by Bloomington, Minnesota Travel and Tourism.