Our guest in this episode is an award-winning writer and performer, Grammy-nominated composer and a frequent public speaker on the subject of creativity… and he was a co-founding performer of Blue Man Group. Chris Wink, CEO and Founder of Wink World, joins our hosts Chris Grap and Grant Buntje to share his insights into the new experience he has created at Mall of America – Wink World.
Wink World is an immersive art experience that perfectly blends Wink’s passions for art and music with his experience in blacklight design and music composing into a playful multi-media funhouse. And during this podcast, Wink tells the story of where the whole concept started…. His bathroom of all places! Wink shares his passion for experiences and how he explores all senses in his work. His goal is to have people immersed in his creations.
After first opening Wink World in Las Vegas, Wink talks about how he knew he wanted to open another location – and why he was excited to choose Mall of America for this newest experience. He shares stories of nostalgia, and how he would turn them into experiences just to have people see things in a new way.
His philosophy is that he wants everyone to have permission to play and have fun. For insights into creativity, entrepreneurship and creating unique experiences, you will enjoy this conversation.
Guest: Chris Wink, CEO + Founder of Wink World
Hosts: Chris Grap, Grant Buntje
Presented by the Bloomington Convention and Visitors Bureau the official destination marketing organization for the city of Bloomington, Minn.
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Mall of America for more than 30 years.
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It has been a retail leader in an international destination and it remains the largest mall in the US.
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Not to mention it welcomes millions of guests from around the world.
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It's huge,
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but it's also so much more in this podcast.
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You're going to hear the real stories of how it started and why it continues to thrive.
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You'll hear about challenges we face the way and what you can learn from them.
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We will feature guests and experts from all walks of life and business and along the way,
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you'll laugh,
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learn and maybe even change the way you look at things.
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So if you're a fan of the mall,
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a brand new visitor,
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an entrepreneur or a dreamer,
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prepare to dive deep into so much more.
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This podcast is presented by the Bloomington Convention and Visitors Bureau.
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Welcome to another episode of so much more.
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My name is Chris Crop.
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I'm the VP of experiential at Mall of America and here with me today,
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Grant bungee Grant.
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How are you doing?
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I'm doing great.
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Thanks for having me again.
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Awesome.
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I'm very excited today.
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Our guest today is a true innovator in every sense.
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He's a performer,
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a writer,
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composer,
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director of the world renowned theatrical experience,
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Blue Man Group.
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He is also the Mad creator behind the incredible multi sensory experience,
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Wink World.
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Mr Chris Wink.
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Thank you for joining us.
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Thank you for having me here.
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I'm excited.
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We miss morals.
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We forgot that.
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That's fine.
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That was good enough.
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Yeah.
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Well,
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awesome.
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We're super thrilled to have you here and really excited to talk about creativity,
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experience,
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economy,
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Wink World.
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How long was that idea?
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Gest dating.
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And we know you opened in Vegas.
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But tell us kind of about where that came from.
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Yeah.
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You know,
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I've been a blue man group for a long time.
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Obviously,
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that was an incredible ride.
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I've heard of it.
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What a,
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what a,
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what a journey.
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It was so wonderful.
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But after a while,
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strangely,
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after many years I found myself feeling like,
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why is it that I just feel like I'm,
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I'm a marketing guy for a big corporation.
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What,
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what happened when I got myself bald and blue and started walking.
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Who would,
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who would wanna be a guy for a big corporation?
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I,
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there's nothing wrong with that.
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I was good at it.
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I enjoyed it,
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but at the same time,
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that's not why I got bald and blue and walked around the city,
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you know,
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sort of trying to find something and trying to iterate with my friends and,
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uh,
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we didn't know when we were doing that just to go on a little tangent that it would develop into anything.
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It was a labor of love.
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It was like,
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well,
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this is a crazy thing.
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We kind of have to do it.
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So we dropped out of our regular jobs,
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got waiter jobs that were flexible and we would just create like one bit for,
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uh,
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you know,
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in our spare time and then we would take a few days off and we would just perform it somewhere.
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Sometimes it went well and a lot of times it didn't go well like spinal tap moments.
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Uh you know,
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and,
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but we would take what was good and do it again.
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We take what was bad and cut it out and we just kind of,
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we're trying stuff and that was so fun,
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you know,
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and that kind of process of seeing something emerge and trying to,
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my process isn't like I have an image in my head.
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Some artists are like that,
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I'm gonna paint this,
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they see it,
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they close their eyes,
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they see it for me.
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My process is play.
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I literally get some stuff and I try to put them together.
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I do,
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I try to find strange bedfellows,
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see if we can do something with it.
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We do the little Macgyver action but just playing with and also playing with different mediums,
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putting the sound and the light and the visual together.
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And I think that's kind of what I do.
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I,
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I synthesize disparate things into something that's new.
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None of the things that are,
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none of the individual components are new.
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It's a new amalgam of,
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you know,
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new mixture,
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taking the familiar and giving it a new twist in a way that maybe you didn't think was possible before.
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Exactly.
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And,
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and,
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and I,
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I wasn't sure I could be an artist at first because I didn't have a lot of like painting ability or this and that.
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And I,
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and when I came across that approach of like,
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hey,
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you know,
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you can kind of recombine recombinant DNA approach to,
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to things.
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I was like,
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I think I could do that.
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You know what I mean?
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As long as I,
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you know,
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and,
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and if you work hard enough and you kind of iterate and uh you know,
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something eventually happens.
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I say if I work hard and I do that then I could be an artist.
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So uh I started doing that and jump cut to,
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you know,
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many decades into Blue Man Group.
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And I'm like,
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you know what,
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I'm not doing that anymore.
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We're just trying to stay,
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you know,
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we're trying to keep people coming in.
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It's all great.
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You know what?
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It's time for me to let other people.
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It's in good hands,
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they can do it.
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They don't need me anymore.
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Let me go out and be a scrappy artist again.
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And I just did that.
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I,
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I left completely.
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And,
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uh,
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you know,
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in on great terms.
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And,
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uh,
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and then the first thing I did was I just started,
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I,
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I went to my bathroom and I,
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I just started playing,
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I put mirrors on the walls and I started hanging slinkies on the roof.
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It was kind of like a crazy person.
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Uh,
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I think people thought I was a little nuts but,
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you know,
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they're used to it a little bit mirrors all over your bathroom does sound like a crazy person or at least someone with great self confidence.
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So,
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can you?
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Yeah.
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Yeah,
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that's right.
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It,
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it,
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it stopped functioning as a real functional bathroom,
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you know,
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at a certain point.
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Right.
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Uh For there were other bathrooms that,
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that,
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that we could actually use for that.
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But the thing about it was,
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it was a little room with,
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with parallel walls.
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That was what was important about it and it wasn't important that it had a toilet in it.
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Uh And I started playing with stuff black light.
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I've always liked that.
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Uh then added some motors,
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made the slinky bounce.
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And the next thing I know I was like,
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all right,
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this is,
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this is something,
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I don't know what it is exactly.
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But um it,
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that's how it started.
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And then I,
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I met the people at area 15,
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they wanted me to work there.
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I said,
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look,
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I,
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I've been,
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I've got this idea.
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I think I wanna call it,
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Wink World.
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If,
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if you let me do Wink World at area 15,
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I'll work with you on area 15.
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Uh,
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and that turned out to be great because then I kind of got the best of both worlds.
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I got the infrastructure of their kind of contractors and,
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you know,
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legal services and this and that.
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But I became sort of separate little boutique thing on the side.
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And that's how we got the one in area 15 in Las Vegas.
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And then the thing about that was until it was done.
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We had no idea what it,
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you,
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you,
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we couldn't even really model it with all the mirrors and everything.
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We didn't know what it would look like.
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We didn't know if people would,
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would,
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would enjoy it.
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But fortunately,
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people loved it.
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And from there,
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we learned so much and we've learned so much also,
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we went to,
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we did a Middle East pop up and so now we're coming in not always have to be humble.
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You can't be cocky,
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but we've learned a lot and we think we know how to make people really have a good time.
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That's great.
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Um You mentioned,
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you know that,
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that bathroom I idea piece when you were at Blue Man,
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like,
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did you have this desire to create this new thing or like,
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did you know that you wanted to create a new experience that is Wink World or like,
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were you still just open to what that next,
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next thing is,
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like,
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where in that process did you say?
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Like,
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I actually sort of have a new experience,
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business idea versus,
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like,
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I just wanna do cool things that you feel comfortable enough to put your name on.
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Yeah,
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exactly.
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Well,
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I,
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I,
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I've been following the trends and sort of entertainment for a long time and I make it my business to go out and see almost everything,
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this idea of experiential,
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uh,
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which I think is really,
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you know,
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a global phenomenon.
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It's changing things.
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It's certainly changing malls because the malls that have experience are the ones that are still here.
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The malls that have great experiential content are the ones that are thriving and everything else is just left in the dust.
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Iii I just genuinely like the idea of experiential and I think that,
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that it's only the only the tip of the iceberg.
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It's been scratched.
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And so I really was like,
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you know what I've done theater,
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even though Blue Man,
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I don't think of it as like theater.
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I think it was vaudeville,
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but it's theatrical.
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It's in a stage setting.
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People are sitting,
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it starts at one,
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you know,
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it's,
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it's theatrical.
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I really wanted to dive into this new medium of experiential and I thought,
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you know,
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I could bring what I learned from the theatrical world because that's what I think is missing.
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I don't think anybody is really bringing the tricks of theater you go and you get to find a nice thing to do an Instagram picture next to whatever it wink world,
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you go into a room and there's a little show but instead of it being actors or blue men,
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the slinky or the stars or you know,
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the other objects that move.
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And,
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and for me,
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the,
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the,
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the trick is putting light design,
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sound,
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sudden changes,
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surprises all together to,
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to have these little short,
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you know,
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theatrical experiences is,
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is a new thing.
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Uh And I,
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I think people are responding to it because we can really get the emotional piece from that.
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It isn't just look at my,
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this,
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look at this funny picture.
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You know,
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it's more like we can really get an emotional kind of arc to it.
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And I also think basically the other thing I wanted to do just as I thought of Blue Man as kind of a reinvention of vaudeville.
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I think of Wink World as the reinvention of the Fun house.
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I love carnivals.
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I think the idea of a carnival,
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you go and you have fun.
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But the,
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the real,
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the,
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the reality of like the way carnivals often are is like you go in,
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it's like,
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well,
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that wasn't so great and that was all right.
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I,
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I spun around in a circle.
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What if you went to a carnival?
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Essentially?
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What if in a sense,
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more of a America had a carnival component,
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you know,
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and you could go in and really have an amazing fun house for people who've seen a lot already,
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for people whose eyes have,
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you know,
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grown up with social media,
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they know what's happening all over the world.
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How do you surprise and delight people who have such sophisticated exposure.
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And so that's one of the things we're trying to do is create a,
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a crazy funny,
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you know,
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surprising fun house.
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And we,
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yes,
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it's a little bit,
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you know,
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we pull from art,
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we pull from science,
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we pull from,
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you know,
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black light and all that kind of world.
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Uh It's a little bit of a burning man vibe at times,
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but it's really just trying to make and it's,
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and it's really not kids love it,
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but we try to do it.
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Same with Blue Man.
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We try to do it for ourselves.
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We try to make grown ups feel that delight.
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That's like child like kind of delight.
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That is a huge guiding light for us as well.
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I think um you touched on a couple of things where the tactile experience I think people are recognizing has a greater impact.
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Uh There's a lot of um magic is lost when everything is on a screen or digital.
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And by kind of repackaging familiar things or presenting things that were familiar in a different way,
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shows that creativity and can give people that spark.
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That's a quick story to tell when they can see themselves in that situation because you took a slinky and you did something unexpected with something familiar and I am glad to see people coming back around to this old magic is the best magic.
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There's a reason why it's still,
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you talk about vaudeville and old theater like that set the mind reeling and a lot of imagination is lost just by relying on digital or it's the instagrammable moment.
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But you can do these things in a space.
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You can find that that's the real magic too because,
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because you assume that think can happen with CG I or editing and when you see it in video and they're not mutually exclusive,
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what,
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what's the,
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the thing that may have been maybe a little bit unpredictable is that the rise of,
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of,
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of,
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of digital has also given rise to a desire for live experiences,
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group experiences,
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things that where you really see physical things.
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And that's why at Wink World,
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we try to make sure that there's,
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it's very tactile,
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very physical and we don't put barriers between people.
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I remember some of the contractors were saying,
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well,
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why don't we put a little glass window here because people are gonna grab stuff and they might break it.
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And I was like,
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yeah,
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they might break it.
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That's exactly why they're here and they don't need another screen and I don't do any projection.
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Right.
00:11:47
There's enough projection out there,
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like there's enough,
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this is stuff and it's moving and if you put your hand in the wrong spot it'll,
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you know,
00:11:55
you might,
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you might break it,
00:11:56
you might.
00:11:57
But that's,
00:11:58
and that's the cost of doing business.
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Like that's just,
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I said that we just have to deal with it if they break it,
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you know,
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and we,
00:12:04
we have a video camera,
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you think people would,
00:12:07
would,
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uh,
00:12:08
not wanna break it and I don't think they really do.
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But,
00:12:11
uh the point is is that you've gotta have that real physical thing and the digital world is actually just raising people's desire for it.
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I mean,
00:12:20
it's the same thing with sports.
00:12:22
Sports aren't just because you can see it on,
00:12:24
on your,
00:12:25
on your screen doesn't mean you're not gonna want to go to the game.
00:12:28
They,
00:12:28
they,
00:12:28
they're just,
00:12:29
they're just two things that kind of go together and people come to Wink World and of course they're allowed to film and,
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but,
00:12:36
but it doesn't capture,
00:12:38
people will look at the videos and they go,
00:12:39
I don't know what that is,
00:12:40
what's going on.
00:12:41
That seems insane.
00:12:42
It seems crazy.
00:12:43
And then they wanna come because they wanna understand what's going on.
00:12:47
And that's what I love too is that it's not capturing,
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you can film it all you want,
00:12:51
but nobody knows what they're looking at.
00:12:53
I mean,
00:12:54
I,
00:12:54
I tried filming it.
00:12:55
I had the pleasure of going to the one in Vegas and did you like it?
00:12:59
Oh,
00:13:00
I loved it,
00:13:00
loved it so much.
00:13:01
Um It was great.
00:13:02
We were out there for a conference,
00:13:04
we brought a group of people out there and it was,
00:13:06
it was,
00:13:06
it was a great experience.
00:13:08
Um And I think the physical piece of it like you're talking about is just makes it feel special.
00:13:14
And you talked about Vegas and then you did the pop up in the Middle East and learning from those things like,
00:13:21
hey,
00:13:21
when something works at the Mall of America,
00:13:23
like we can sense it that it works.
00:13:25
How do you evaluate when you think something's working and then it just doesn't work.
00:13:31
Like,
00:13:31
how do you move on from like,
00:13:32
hey,
00:13:32
we thought this was gonna be a great like,
00:13:35
let's do this and then you're like,
00:13:37
no,
00:13:38
like let's scrape that.
00:13:39
Like,
00:13:39
what's your thoughts on that?
00:13:41
This is the way we felt the blue man,
00:13:42
like the audience is right?
00:13:43
Like we're not snobs about it like,
00:13:44
oh,
00:13:44
they didn't get it like,
00:13:46
no,
00:13:46
if the audience,
00:13:46
if we have,
00:13:47
if you're trying to do a joke,
00:13:48
the audience doesn't laugh or sing with comedians and you know that it didn't work and you might not give up on it,
00:13:52
but you gotta have to rejigger it or do something.
00:13:55
And so,
00:13:56
I mean,
00:13:57
the success rate in Vegas was,
00:13:58
was higher than one would expect.
00:14:00
Like,
00:14:01
I didn't feel like that.
00:14:02
I,
00:14:02
I saw a lot of ways to improve but none of the rooms really were uh a dud,
00:14:07
you know,
00:14:07
and I,
00:14:08
I will say that,
00:14:10
you know,
00:14:10
but I,
00:14:10
I have 10,
00:14:12
maybe 20 hours of knowing how to put music and visuals together.
00:14:16
I'm not saying that,
00:14:16
you know,
00:14:17
but II,
00:14:17
I paid my dues in that area and I think it paid off in that regard,
00:14:21
um,
00:14:21
because we wrote the music and had an idea of like each one should have a different vibe,
00:14:26
music wise and,
00:14:27
and actually I go through all the time with the people and II,
00:14:31
I see what they're feeling and I,
00:14:33
I wanna see a group of teenagers,
00:14:35
I wanna see a coup,
00:14:36
you know,
00:14:36
a,
00:14:36
a group of couples out on dates.
00:14:39
I wanna see some kids.
00:14:40
I wanna see,
00:14:41
you know,
00:14:41
what an older,
00:14:42
you know,
00:14:43
just an elderly couple or something.
00:14:45
I wanna get a sense of,
00:14:46
of what it's what's happening for all of them.
00:14:48
And actually one of the things that was what it was almost like an accident,
00:14:53
but by having these little rooms that are sort of intimate,
00:14:55
it becomes a great group experience.
00:14:57
It's almost like for karaoke night,
00:14:59
you know,
00:14:59
when you get in your own room.
00:15:01
Well,
00:15:01
you,
00:15:01
you know,
00:15:02
you,
00:15:02
if you have a group of six or eight or,
00:15:04
you know,
00:15:04
people,
00:15:04
you know,
00:15:05
or 10 or whatever,
00:15:05
you,
00:15:06
you can have your own little private series of like little shows.
00:15:10
That's just you guys you can make your own comments,
00:15:13
dance with the music.
00:15:15
And II,
00:15:16
I didn't realize how fun that would be.
00:15:19
That was like a,
00:15:19
just a,
00:15:20
you know,
00:15:21
we,
00:15:21
we were,
00:15:21
we just had to have these little rooms separate,
00:15:23
but then I didn't realize,
00:15:25
uh,
00:15:25
how well it would work for groups.
00:15:27
There was a moment when we're in,
00:15:29
we're in our group and,
00:15:30
um,
00:15:31
the door opens up and you have this like moment where there's the group ahead of you and you're in your group.
00:15:36
And there's this one time where the door opens up and there's a group of maybe 20 sons and ahead of us and the guy turns to us and he's like,
00:15:44
this is the best one.
00:15:46
You're gonna love it,
00:15:47
right?
00:15:48
So like you're in your own group,
00:15:50
but you also have this interaction with the group behind you and the group ahead of you for these like moments in time where you're like sort of passing on things and stuff like that.
00:15:58
So I loved that part of it too.
00:16:00
That was just,
00:16:01
it was a great interaction that we had.
00:16:03
I realized how much immersive had changed my behaviors when I went to a piece of theater in,
00:16:09
in New York with some friends and somebody invited me and I was like,
00:16:12
yeah,
00:16:13
I was talking to them.
00:16:14
It's like Chris,
00:16:14
you,
00:16:14
you,
00:16:14
you can't talk and I was like,
00:16:16
what do you mean we can't talk?
00:16:17
He said it's theater there,
00:16:18
you're gonna,
00:16:19
you gotta shut up.
00:16:20
And I was like,
00:16:21
well,
00:16:21
that's no fun and,
00:16:23
uh,
00:16:23
I get it,
00:16:24
you know,
00:16:24
you don't want to disturb other people,
00:16:26
but in this case,
00:16:27
you can talk,
00:16:28
you can yell,
00:16:28
you can dance,
00:16:29
you know,
00:16:30
and,
00:16:30
and that's really fun.
00:16:31
What do you think?
00:16:32
Um,
00:16:33
we talk a lot about permission to play,
00:16:35
giving people permission to play and explore and be curious again because I do think sometimes there is a loss of curiosity.
00:16:42
Isn't that ironic that at a play you can't play,
00:16:45
right?
00:16:45
They should regain a name,
00:16:47
not play,
00:16:48
you can't play.
00:16:50
But,
00:16:50
but yeah,
00:16:51
immersive is it is,
00:16:52
it is play for adults,
00:16:54
right?
00:16:54
It's like a like a and,
00:16:56
and of course kids too.
00:16:57
But,
00:16:58
but,
00:16:58
you know,
00:16:58
it's that,
00:16:59
that thing of like giving permission and I think it's a healthy,
00:17:03
you know,
00:17:04
instinct to not wanna bother other people and,
00:17:06
and you know,
00:17:07
you're at a airport and do we do we really want to jump up and down and do we want to play our music really loud when there's other people in there?
00:17:13
But I think that that yeah,
00:17:14
being respectful of other people's space and boundaries is,
00:17:17
is nice.
00:17:18
So I think we have to create these spaces where AAA nice citizen,
00:17:23
you know,
00:17:23
upstanding citizen can say,
00:17:25
OK,
00:17:25
I can let my hair down and I'm not gonna bother anybody and no one's gonna,
00:17:30
you know,
00:17:30
no one's gonna laugh at me or,
00:17:32
or judge me except for my friends,
00:17:34
but hopefully they're your friends.
00:17:35
So they're not gonna do that.
00:17:37
And I think that's,
00:17:38
I think that's what immersive is all about.
00:17:39
I mean,
00:17:39
I'm really proud to be part of the immersive movement.
00:17:42
I mean,
00:17:42
I think of Wink World as a thing,
00:17:44
but I think it's part of this bigger thing that's going on and it has its roots in things like,
00:17:49
you know,
00:17:49
amusement parks and,
00:17:50
you know,
00:17:50
carnivals and stuff.
00:17:52
But it's,
00:17:52
it's turned into something else and we're using these things from other meetings.
00:17:56
We're pulling him in and I think we're just in our infancy,
00:17:59
you know,
00:17:59
and I'm,
00:18:00
I'm really proud to be part of that.
00:18:01
Like I was in a way with theater,
00:18:04
I was part of like the end of it.
00:18:06
Like the,
00:18:06
you know,
00:18:06
the end of the golden era,
00:18:08
I think theater is really struggling now and,
00:18:10
and,
00:18:10
and,
00:18:10
and that's fine.
00:18:11
I mean,
00:18:11
you know,
00:18:11
I,
00:18:11
I wish it well,
00:18:12
but it's just not keeping up with where we're going.
00:18:16
And I think this is the,
00:18:18
this is the exciting wave that I wanna be a part of and I,
00:18:21
I think it's gonna be interesting for many years to come,
00:18:23
you know,
00:18:23
I think also when we,
00:18:25
when we get something up here,
00:18:27
the aspiration would be,
00:18:28
you know,
00:18:28
over time,
00:18:29
we would add new things,
00:18:31
we would maybe make a new room or make it,
00:18:33
you know,
00:18:33
sort of,
00:18:34
you know,
00:18:35
change it up a little bit,
00:18:36
maybe change up even the,
00:18:38
the lobby and the,
00:18:39
the,
00:18:39
the,
00:18:40
the store front,
00:18:41
you know.
00:18:41
And,
00:18:42
uh,
00:18:43
but I think that,
00:18:43
I think there's a,
00:18:44
a long term,
00:18:46
you know,
00:18:46
evolution of immersive and I,
00:18:48
I have a feeling that you can,
00:18:50
you can see it here at the mall.
00:18:51
Like,
00:18:51
you know,
00:18:51
there's a lot more of it coming.
00:18:53
Right.
00:18:53
You've got other things that are,
00:18:55
that are kind of moving into a new direction.
00:18:57
It isn't just,
00:18:58
you know,
00:18:58
the rides and the,
00:18:59
the golf and the,
00:19:00
but the,
00:19:01
the sort of,
00:19:02
you know,
00:19:02
adding a little bit of creativity,
00:19:04
adding a little bit of some things from the underground.
00:19:06
And that's actually another thing that I really learned from Blue Man.
00:19:09
I mean,
00:19:09
some of the,
00:19:09
when we started off in New York,
00:19:11
it was part of the underground scene.
00:19:12
It was like kind of cool and all that.
00:19:14
But we were like,
00:19:15
you know,
00:19:16
we don't need to stay there.
00:19:17
Let's go to Vegas,
00:19:18
let's bring this out to the world and not be,
00:19:21
you know,
00:19:21
snobby about it or like,
00:19:23
try to be the cool kids.
00:19:24
Let's,
00:19:25
let's try to reach people,
00:19:26
you know,
00:19:27
and,
00:19:27
and it was really a character that was meant to be like kind of this generic outsider that could see our world with fresh eyes and wonder what this bottle of water could be used.
00:19:37
For,
00:19:37
maybe could be used in the.
00:19:38
And so I,
00:19:39
I try to do that again with Wink World.
00:19:40
It's like,
00:19:41
try to create the world we're in use trappings of it.
00:19:45
That's why I use slinky and certain things,
00:19:47
but like twist it into something else so that we kind of get almost,
00:19:52
you know,
00:19:52
jarred into a moment of delight and wonder.
00:19:55
So it's interesting,
00:19:56
you talk about that too,
00:19:57
you know,
00:19:57
the expectations of going to the theater,
00:19:59
going to a play and there's a certain set of prescribed rules that you adhere to there.
00:20:04
So when you were in New York with Blue Man and then moved to Vegas,
00:20:07
did the audiences respond differently?
00:20:10
Because in Vegas everybody's there to play.
00:20:13
Yeah.
00:20:14
Oh,
00:20:14
well,
00:20:15
you know,
00:20:15
it's funny when we went to Boston,
00:20:20
Boston's,
00:20:21
they,
00:20:21
they go to a lot of theater but they,
00:20:23
they,
00:20:24
they,
00:20:24
when they go out on the weekend,
00:20:28
you know,
00:20:28
there's a couple of beers beforehand.
00:20:31
They,
00:20:31
they're,
00:20:32
they're,
00:20:32
they're the party.
00:20:32
They were like,
00:20:33
you know,
00:20:33
and so we got our prep for Vegas in Boston because they're like wicked piss.
00:20:38
I,
00:20:38
we're gonna go to Blue Man.
00:20:40
All right.
00:20:41
A couple of beers in and we in New York we would have to like egg people on to kind of get the audience going.
00:20:46
We even had these tubes that would go to people's seats.
00:20:48
So like,
00:20:48
hey,
00:20:49
uh,
00:20:49
let me hear you go.
00:20:50
Whoo.
00:20:50
And they would like go.
00:20:52
You got to it,
00:20:52
let me hear you go.
00:20:53
Who?
00:20:53
The guy stands up?
00:20:54
Who,
00:20:54
who?
00:20:55
Boston booed?
00:20:56
Piss?
00:20:57
Who?
00:20:58
Well,
00:20:58
ok.
00:20:59
Ok.
00:20:59
Maybe we don't,
00:21:00
maybe we don't egg them on.
00:21:01
Yeah.
00:21:02
Yeah,
00:21:02
they're fine.
00:21:03
And then Vegas,
00:21:03
you know,
00:21:04
Vegas isn't quite,
00:21:05
even as rowdy.
00:21:06
Every,
00:21:06
there's,
00:21:06
there's,
00:21:06
everyone's kind of partying but there's,
00:21:08
there's all different ages.
00:21:09
Some people have been partying all day.
00:21:11
They can barely stand up,
00:21:12
you know,
00:21:12
you have different phases of it.
00:21:15
But absolutely.
00:21:16
And,
00:21:16
and that,
00:21:17
that kind of celebratory part really is part of what had to fit in when we first went to Vegas.
00:21:22
Like,
00:21:22
what is this thing?
00:21:23
You know,
00:21:23
what's going on?
00:21:25
But then it kind of weirdly fit into the,
00:21:27
the zeitgeist perfectly because that's what everyone's there a to see something different,
00:21:32
have a different experience,
00:21:33
but certainly to have fun.
00:21:35
And that's really what Blue Man was.
00:21:36
And so that's what I want Wink World to be.
00:21:38
It's something that's different,
00:21:40
maybe even a little artful but not snobby but like just super fun.
00:21:45
Well,
00:21:46
I think that's a big part of having an immersive experience in a place like this because we see people from all over the world just like you do in Vegas.
00:21:54
You want that low barrier to entry.
00:21:56
You don't want people to feel that,
00:21:58
ok,
00:21:59
it's here and I'm here.
00:22:00
You want everybody to be able to experience it their own way but not feel they don't belong in the space,
00:22:05
you know,
00:22:05
and another thing that's important.
00:22:07
I,
00:22:07
I think ticket price is important,
00:22:09
I think by having something that's not 90 minutes long that you have to commit your whole night to,
00:22:13
by having something that's more like 30 minutes long and then having a ticket price because,
00:22:17
you know,
00:22:18
it's,
00:22:18
we can run it on a certain way.
00:22:20
We don't have a,
00:22:21
a giant cast and,
00:22:22
you know,
00:22:22
and getting the price down,
00:22:24
you know,
00:22:24
more closer to $20 where you're like.
00:22:26
All right,
00:22:27
I don't know what this is,
00:22:28
but for $20 I can take a chance for $75.
00:22:31
I don't know,
00:22:32
you know what I mean?
00:22:32
And,
00:22:33
and,
00:22:33
and also the other thing is by having a shorter thing,
00:22:35
you come to the mall of America,
00:22:36
you don't know what you're gonna do,
00:22:37
but you're gonna do three or four or five or 10 things.
00:22:40
And so you have to fit into that ecosystem where we're not trying to make.
00:22:45
You do have this be the only thing you're doing.
00:22:47
You,
00:22:47
this is gonna be one of many things you're doing.
00:22:49
So that means it can't cost too much,
00:22:51
it can't take too much of your time.
00:22:53
And so I,
00:22:54
I really like that part of it.
00:22:56
Like we don't have to put on a 90 minute show,
00:22:59
you know,
00:22:59
we're putting on a 30 minute show and,
00:23:01
you know,
00:23:02
not charging that much so you can just give it a shot.
00:23:04
Yeah.
00:23:04
And I think,
00:23:05
you know,
00:23:06
from a Mall of America standpoint,
00:23:08
like our guests change a lot during the years.
00:23:10
Right.
00:23:10
Like our summer traffic is very much a drive,
00:23:14
market traffic where we have people coming from all over the,
00:23:17
the country making road trips here and they'll come for two days or three days.
00:23:21
But then in holiday,
00:23:23
maybe they're here for one day.
00:23:25
And I think understanding exactly what you described is sort of the success.
00:23:30
We look at Mall of America as an experience and part of that experience is a set of other experiences and those sets of experiences is different for every person,
00:23:39
right?
00:23:39
So you put together their own little like suite of experiences.
00:23:42
But I will say this the way I'm gonna judge success here.
00:23:46
I want Wink World to be on everyone's list of,
00:23:48
if you have to do five things,
00:23:50
Wink World's on the list because you want maybe one of the roller coasters,
00:23:55
maybe,
00:23:55
you know,
00:23:56
the one of,
00:23:57
you know,
00:23:58
and,
00:23:58
and it,
00:23:59
I wanna be on that list of like to get the spectrum.
00:24:03
Yep,
00:24:03
we wanna be,
00:24:05
you know,
00:24:05
one of those like signature spots that people like say,
00:24:09
you know,
00:24:10
if,
00:24:10
if they recommend it,
00:24:12
you know,
00:24:12
and that's,
00:24:12
I'm gonna,
00:24:13
I'm gonna do my own little market research after we open,
00:24:15
see if people that work here or that you are recommending to their friends would say,
00:24:20
you know,
00:24:21
this is one of the,
00:24:22
one of the,
00:24:22
the,
00:24:23
the pillar things that you'd wanna see if you wanna have.
00:24:25
And I also hope that people use Wink World as an example of how of America keeps moving into the future.
00:24:32
Like it hasn't stayed.
00:24:33
I mean,
00:24:33
of course,
00:24:35
it's like Disneyland or other things.
00:24:36
You don't want Disneyland to change in some regards.
00:24:38
But in other regards,
00:24:40
you know,
00:24:40
they have to put new things in Star Wars and this is the,
00:24:42
you know,
00:24:43
the virtual reality this and that.
00:24:46
So,
00:24:46
yeah,
00:24:47
you don't want the idea of there being a,
00:24:49
you know,
00:24:50
a theme park in the middle to change,
00:24:52
but you want some of the content to evolve over time.
00:24:54
And I'd like to think that Wink Work would be part of the narrative that look,
00:24:59
you know,
00:24:59
it's 2023 2024 almost,
00:25:02
you know,
00:25:02
and we're,
00:25:03
you know,
00:25:03
we're moving,
00:25:05
you know,
00:25:05
into the future,
00:25:06
uh you know,
00:25:07
and,
00:25:07
and,
00:25:07
and evolving with the immersive trends and keeping people excited to just,
00:25:12
you know,
00:25:12
keep coming back.
00:25:13
Well,
00:25:14
I think one of the things I love about working here is that we do have the ability to go right out on the floor and see people immediately reacting to the things we put in front of them.
00:25:24
And a lot of times people don't have that opportunity to do it.
00:25:28
So it sounds like too as you had all these,
00:25:30
what ifs and you put them into place in Vegas.
00:25:33
Were there any surprises for you once you were able to share it with the public?
00:25:37
What were some of the surprises for you from what you put in front of them?
00:25:40
Well,
00:25:40
I just was,
00:25:41
I,
00:25:41
I was so pleasantly surprised at how much it resonated for people and how much they would um laugh at the funny surprises but also almost like tear up at the,
00:25:51
you know,
00:25:52
at the end,
00:25:52
I,
00:25:53
I don't know,
00:25:54
in my old age,
00:25:55
you know,
00:25:55
I'm a little sentimental but the last room we use the word love,
00:25:59
you know,
00:25:59
and unapologetically I'm a big,
00:26:01
I think it's a,
00:26:02
it's a trend that's gonna last this whole love thing.
00:26:04
I think it's here to stay.
00:26:06
We,
00:26:07
we agree that's what we talk about is delivering love moment.
00:26:10
Yeah.
00:26:10
And,
00:26:11
and so I unabashedly in on this kind of thing of just like,
00:26:14
you know,
00:26:14
isn't life beautiful.
00:26:15
There's so much to be grateful for and,
00:26:17
and seeing people come out like teared up.
00:26:21
I was like,
00:26:22
I did not expect that you,
00:26:23
you hope for it but you don't,
00:26:25
you don't,
00:26:25
you don't expect it.
00:26:26
So that was a big surprise.
00:26:28
And,
00:26:29
you know,
00:26:29
the other thing that I will say is that,
00:26:31
you know,
00:26:32
we're really thrilled to be part of Mall of America because Mall of America came to us like we met Carrie,
00:26:38
you know,
00:26:38
in Charleston and she was like,
00:26:39
you know,
00:26:40
we're,
00:26:41
we're always looking to the future and we think you could be part of that and,
00:26:45
and,
00:26:45
and I really appreciate it that instead of me going around,
00:26:48
like,
00:26:48
uh,
00:26:48
where can I put the next Wink World up and kind of,
00:26:51
you know,
00:26:52
you,
00:26:52
you,
00:26:52
I've dealt with some places.
00:26:53
I even tried to do one in New York and,
00:26:55
and they were like,
00:26:55
well,
00:26:55
what is this thing?
00:26:56
I don't know.
00:26:56
I don't get it.
00:26:57
And it's like the fact that I didn't have to explain anything that they are.
00:27:01
It was already clear people that already knew where things are going.
00:27:05
And we,
00:27:07
we,
00:27:07
we,
00:27:07
we just look at each other's eyes like we,
00:27:09
we know why we're doing the same,
00:27:11
the same things.
00:27:12
Experience,
00:27:14
the value of a well done immersive experience cannot be.
00:27:19
And,
00:27:19
and also all ages like,
00:27:21
like that's an accident.
00:27:23
Like we didn't know we were doing that with blue man,
00:27:24
but our taste,
00:27:25
we did it for ourselves,
00:27:26
but it just turned out that eight year olds and 80 year olds and everything in between could go.
00:27:30
And so I,
00:27:31
I never wanted,
00:27:32
I mean,
00:27:33
I,
00:27:33
that's just kind of what I like to do.
00:27:35
II,
00:27:35
I don't,
00:27:36
I,
00:27:36
I don't dumb it down for the kids and I don't clean it up.
00:27:40
I just II,
00:27:41
I just naturally just,
00:27:43
it just ends up being something that everybody.
00:27:45
But again,
00:27:46
I think what you do really well is you give people permission to play.
00:27:50
It's ok to have fun and be silly and explore and people forget that.
00:27:54
And that's why things like this and things like Wink World are so important.
00:27:58
I would argue that they're not uh um going anywhere because they are vital.
00:28:05
It's vital to have those moments of unexpected communal moments as a kid.
00:28:09
That's why I loved going to the movie theater.
00:28:11
That's what I had that large communal experience.
00:28:13
But now you're getting it in these little uh little doses and unexpected moments in a place like Mall of America or in a place like area 15 and um for you to trust Carrie and you to come up here and see it.
00:28:25
I,
00:28:25
I believe that's the type of partner Mall of America wants to work with because it's kind of tough to explain that we're here.
00:28:33
We're in Bloomington,
00:28:33
Minnesota.
00:28:34
But I've often said we're like Vegas for some reason,
00:28:37
they said we're gonna do this here and it just works and millions of people come every year because they wanna play.
00:28:42
Well,
00:28:43
it's really amazing because II I grew up in Manhattan and I was like in a little bubble there.
00:28:48
And this is the only mall I,
00:28:50
I never had been to a mall.
00:28:51
This is the only mall I had heard of because like everyone in the world kind of like what,
00:28:57
what's going on,
00:28:58
you know,
00:28:58
what,
00:28:59
find out how many people come each year and what the aspiration was.
00:29:03
And so,
00:29:04
you know,
00:29:04
this is,
00:29:05
this is in a class by itself,
00:29:07
you know,
00:29:07
and so that's,
00:29:09
it's always fun.
00:29:09
If you can be in a place that's in a class by itself,
00:29:13
we're gonna end there and we're gonna use that in the poll there.
00:29:16
Is that,
00:29:18
that's great class by itself.
00:29:19
No,
00:29:20
seriously,
00:29:20
we're really excited for you to be here,
00:29:22
share some time with us and we can't wait for Wink World to open.
00:29:24
So,
00:29:24
thank you for joining us on this immersive experience journey as well.
00:29:28
Thank you.
00:29:29
We're excited to open giving people here some wonder,
00:29:33
joy,
00:29:33
fun and a little bit of love vibes.
00:29:36
Absolutely love vibes.
00:29:37
That's what we need.
00:29:38
Thank you.
00:29:39
Thank you for listening.
00:29:40
Tune in next time for another episode.
00:29:41
Thank you.
00:29:43
Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of so much more.
00:29:47
If you want to hear more,
00:29:48
be sure to subscribe to our podcast wherever you find your favorites including Spotify Apple or Google podcast.
00:29:55
And you can also watch a video cast on youtube,
00:29:58
go to podcast dot m America dot com to leave a review,
00:30:01
ask a question or give us an idea for the show.
00:30:04
Until next time.
00:30:06
Thanks for listening.
00:30:07
So much more is presented by the Bloomington Convention and Visitors Bureau,
00:30:11
the official Destination Marketing Organization for the City of Bloomington,
00:30:15
Minnesota.
00:30:16
Before your next trip to Mall of America,
00:30:18
visit bloomington dot org for answers to all your travel questions,
00:30:22
deals and packages for hotel stays and so much more.