Ep. 69: Arik Hanson Social Media Expert part 1

[00:00:00] Mall of America, it's home to world-class shopping, great dining, and amazing attractions and events. And these are our stories presented by Bloomington, Minnesota Travel and Tourism.

[00:00:12] Welcome to this episode of So Much More. I am your host, Dan Jasper, and joining me is my colleague and co-host, Jill Renslow. Jill, how are you doing?

[00:00:22] I'm doing great. Looking forward to this conversation.

[00:00:24] I am too. It's going to be fun. Today we are talking all things social media and trust me, I am not an expert.

[00:00:31] I am an expert on social media. But thankfully, our guest is an expert. With more than 25 years' experience in the social media and digital marketing area, our guest has helped more than 70 companies achieve results.

[00:00:44] He's an early adopter in the field of social media, founded a social media blog way back in 2008, and is co-host of a podcast that has more than 175 episodes that have been completed.

[00:00:57] One of the longest and largest social media podcasts in Minnesota. Eric Hansen is our expert. Welcome, Eric. How are you doing?

[00:01:07] Hey, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

[00:01:08] It's good to have you here. You have been a friend of them all for many, many, many years from our early days of social media, correct?

[00:01:15] True story. True story. Since the beginning almost.

[00:01:17] Since the beginning.

[00:01:18] I would say, right?

[00:01:18] You're right. You came in very early and gave us some very valued guidance.

[00:01:22] We first worked together before you even had a full-time social media person, as far as I remember, right?

[00:01:26] That's right.

[00:01:27] Bridget Jewell was doing social and she was not full-time at it. She was doing PR was her first job, I believe.

[00:01:31] Yeah, we were joint PR social media and you came in and helped us. One of the pieces of advice you gave us was you need a social media, someone dedicated to that team, right?

[00:01:40] That would have been good. And you quickly rectified that and she was great. It was Lisa Grimm, probably.

[00:01:44] We did. It was Lisa Grimm, who was awesome. We love her.

[00:01:47] Fantastic.

[00:01:47] Before we jump into our conversation, Jill and I have a ton of questions for you. We'd love for you to give us your backstory, your professional journey, how you got to where you are today.

[00:01:57] Yeah, sure. My career kind of involves, I think, three segments. There's early career in my 20s where I was hopped around a lot of jobs by design, trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I wouldn't recommend that strategy, by the way.

[00:02:14] And admittedly, I was a horrible employee. I was unmotivated. I was directionless. I almost got fired twice.

[00:02:22] Okay.

[00:02:23] I worked at an agency. I worked at a nonprofit. I worked at a manufacturer. I worked at a media company. So, I kind of hopped around a lot. And then I found a spot in an accounting firm named McGladry in my early 30s. And I finally had a boss, I thought, that kind of believed in me and helped mentor me for a while.

[00:02:42] I had roles of increasing responsibility there. It's when I joined PRSA. I met a lot of people. So, I kind of grew a lot in that role. And then from there, I went to a small PR agency in St. Paul. Then I worked at Fairview. And then that's when I made the leap to being solo 15 years ago.

[00:03:00] So, it was 2009. And social was blowing up. Twitter was big, blogging. This is kind of the time period we talked about. And you could see that it was going to become a job and a thing, at least people like I could at the time. We were invested in it.

[00:03:20] So, I thought, well, I could do this for a company like Fairview. And they said, no. Sorry, we haven't covered. I was like, okay. Or I could try to go work for an agency. But the problem was I had young children at home, a one-year-old and a three-year-old.

[00:03:33] And I thought, I don't want to be traveling all over the country, which I would have had to do. So, door number three was always this independent consulting thing. And I thought, you know what? I'll give that a shot.

[00:03:42] And if I spectacularly fail at it, I can always find another job. And here we are 15 years later now. So, it worked out okay.

[00:03:49] It's been going well for you, hasn't it?

[00:03:51] It's been going okay.

[00:03:52] I'm going to backtrack really quickly, if I can. I love that in your early part of your career, you had some issues and it didn't click, you said, and almost got fired a couple times.

[00:04:02] What do you think the reason was? Was it the lack of a mentor? Was it you just didn't know what direction you wanted to go?

[00:04:08] A little bit of that. I think it was the fact that I really didn't, I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, right?

[00:04:13] So, I had like, one time I had a, one of the jobs I almost got fired from was a proofreader job.

[00:04:17] And I'd taken that job because it was at an agency and I wanted agency experience. I knew I had to get agency experience.

[00:04:22] But this proofreader job was just so monotonous and I was proofreading all day and it was just driving me nuts.

[00:04:28] And because I wasn't as professional as I should be, I kind of, you know, I let things lapse and I miss stuff.

[00:04:35] And the president of the agency called me in his office and like, you got to pull it together or we're going to fire you basically, you know?

[00:04:41] So, I did pull it together, but it took a, you know, it takes, sometimes it takes a little tongue lashing to get your priorities straight.

[00:04:48] And so, I think it was kind of like partly I was unmotivated, partly I was young and stupid.

[00:04:56] And I just didn't know what I wanted to do.

[00:04:58] So, until I found my passion, which was I figured out that at the bare minimum, I like to write.

[00:05:03] Yeah.

[00:05:04] So, that was kind of where I gravitated towards PR and then eventually social.

[00:05:08] But I didn't know that when I was in my 20s and that's why I was struggling to think a little bit.

[00:05:12] Was there a tipping point that you found back in your career that connected you with social media?

[00:05:17] Was it like a specific brand experience or campaign or some connection that you found that this was, as you noted, like this could be a career.

[00:05:27] This could be something that really gets sticky that I could follow through with.

[00:05:30] Yeah.

[00:05:30] It wasn't really so much a brand experience.

[00:05:32] It was more like, and keep in mind, this was 2008, 2009, that you, at least I thought, and many other people thought this, that this could change the world.

[00:05:42] Like this is totally different than what we've seen before.

[00:05:45] And we could change the world with this technology.

[00:05:48] It was partly that.

[00:05:48] And it was partly like we now have social media democratized content.

[00:05:54] So, now I have a voice.

[00:05:56] And that's why I started blogging.

[00:05:57] So, it's like, wow, man, I can put my stuff out on the internet and people will see it and interact with it.

[00:06:03] And, I mean, that was a new concept in 2009, 2008.

[00:06:05] And I love that.

[00:06:07] So, I think it was partly that.

[00:06:09] That's the writer part that was drawing me in.

[00:06:12] And I got really excited about that.

[00:06:14] And then it kind of went from there.

[00:06:15] That's great.

[00:06:16] When you bring up the history of our department and when we had started getting involved in setting up our accounts and how that grew and how having a dedicated team that's doing that full-time, multiple people, and how that continues to evolve.

[00:06:30] It's exciting to see the evolution just over a short amount of time.

[00:06:34] It's kind of crazy.

[00:06:35] I mean, I remember when we first brought you in and it was exciting.

[00:06:38] And in my mind, kind of leading that area of the mall at the time, I was like, let's start a Facebook account.

[00:06:46] Right?

[00:06:46] That was my idea.

[00:06:47] No strategy.

[00:06:48] No anything behind it.

[00:06:49] Thankfully, we hired some good people that were able to lead those efforts.

[00:06:54] But I never envisioned where social media would go and where it's going.

[00:06:59] Right now, we have a very dynamic, smaller team, but they really accomplish a lot.

[00:07:04] A lot of followers, more than 2 million, I believe, total.

[00:07:08] They handle a number of accounts between our different businesses.

[00:07:12] And then they produce videos and content that go viral and garner millions of views as well.

[00:07:19] Is that where you thought social media was going?

[00:07:21] And what did you think?

[00:07:23] And where is it going?

[00:07:24] I don't know if anyone thought it's going where it's going right now, especially with like video taking over and dominating and things like that.

[00:07:34] And truthfully, I have really no idea where it's going to go from here.

[00:07:38] But I think it is interesting to think about where it has come from, from 2009 to here.

[00:07:43] Right?

[00:07:43] Because if you think about just think about one platform like Twitter, for example.

[00:07:47] Yeah.

[00:07:47] Like when Twitter started in 2008, 2009, that was an awesome platform.

[00:07:52] Like it was the place where people were talking.

[00:07:55] Right?

[00:07:55] People were actually having conversations.

[00:07:57] So, you know how they say, join the conversation on Twitter.

[00:07:59] People were actually doing that in 2010, 2009.

[00:08:01] They're not doing that now.

[00:08:03] To see where that came from 2009 at its inception, 2008, 2007, whenever that was at South by Southwest to where we're at now with it has been really, really, really crazy.

[00:08:15] And then or think about like LinkedIn.

[00:08:18] Like LinkedIn when it started years ago was really just a jobs platform for the most part.

[00:08:23] And now that's a hugely growing and proficient platform where people are sharing thoughts.

[00:08:28] I would argue that's kind of the new Twitter.

[00:08:30] That's where conversations are happening now, at least professional ones.

[00:08:33] I think so.

[00:08:34] So, I think it's just interesting to look at the platforms and see how much they've changed and how – I mean, Facebook and other one, you can go right down the list.

[00:08:41] That's what's interesting.

[00:08:42] What's coming next?

[00:08:43] I mean, who knows, right?

[00:08:45] That'll be interesting for all of us to see.

[00:08:46] Dan, I have to laugh when you brought up – we have viral videos.

[00:08:50] I remember being told, create a viral video.

[00:08:53] Yes.

[00:08:53] Just do it.

[00:08:54] Oh, just do it.

[00:08:56] Just make sure it goes viral.

[00:08:57] Okay.

[00:08:57] Well, that's not in our control.

[00:08:59] That's not how it works.

[00:09:00] But I think it's funny how we all envisioned how it could work and then how – and just the content creators, influencers, and how that has shaped consumer behavior and how – especially in the retail world, how much that impacts the brand relationship and loyalty.

[00:09:16] And it's just – it's crazy the growth that we're seeing with direct-to-consumer brands that have started their brand experience online through social channels and now come to brick and mortar.

[00:09:28] And they have this built-in fan base and just knock it out of the park right out of the gate because they have that already built in.

[00:09:34] And so, there's just so much change happening because of social media pros and cons.

[00:09:40] Yeah.

[00:09:40] But it's been fun to see the change of the viral content that we have to create.

[00:09:45] Oh, yeah.

[00:09:45] Yeah.

[00:09:46] And we've had several examples of that, right, where brands had their fan base and their following online.

[00:09:52] One of our newer stores, Addicted, is one of those where all of a sudden, wow, they're just packed.

[00:09:57] And it was all their fans coming in and doing that.

[00:10:00] So, it is incredible.

[00:10:02] You know, you started your solo career on your own back in 2009.

[00:10:08] Are you where you envisioned you would be?

[00:10:11] Did that kind of transpire what you thought it might be like?

[00:10:14] Like, what are the best parts of being on your own and what are the biggest challenges for you?

[00:10:19] Yeah.

[00:10:19] I'm not sure.

[00:10:20] I didn't really have a lot of expectations going into it.

[00:10:23] The only expectation was really that I really wanted kind of the freedom to work with whoever I wanted to and work with great people and really just do social media work, right?

[00:10:32] Which was brand new at the time.

[00:10:34] That was it.

[00:10:34] And then just survive year one, really.

[00:10:36] Like, just give this a shot for a year, survive year one.

[00:10:39] And where it's gone for me has been incredible.

[00:10:43] I mean, I have worked with so many smart people, great people, present company included over the years, that I never would have thought I would have had a chance to work with.

[00:10:51] Like, before I did this, I had, like, zero big brand experience.

[00:10:55] And now I've worked with, I don't know, 80-plus companies over the course of the last 15-year.

[00:11:00] Walmart, Walgreens, Sleep Number, Mall of America, General Mills.

[00:11:04] Like, it's almost easier for me to name who I haven't worked with in town than who I have, which is, that's insane to me.

[00:11:10] Like, I still have huge imposter syndrome about that.

[00:11:15] And also, kind of the creative freedom to test things under the guise of new business for me.

[00:11:21] So, that's been the podcast you mentioned at the top, a blog that had going for 10-plus years, 13-plus years, my newsletter I send out every week.

[00:11:30] Like, I'm constantly experimenting with stuff like that.

[00:11:33] And I definitely couldn't do that if I was working for a company or an agency, not the way that I do it.

[00:11:39] So, that's been a blessing, too.

[00:11:43] In terms of the things that, you know, what I've enjoyed and what the obstacles have been regarding the job, I mean, the joys have really been, again, really mostly the people and the creative freedom.

[00:11:55] But the obstacles are real.

[00:11:56] I mean, number one, it's really like a loneliness factor.

[00:12:00] Like, when you're working on your own, like, you guys here at the mall, like, you guys see tons of people on a daily basis, right?

[00:12:06] Both in the office and then when you walk around the mall, obviously.

[00:12:10] Today, you were the only two people I saw that weren't my wife and my kid, my dog.

[00:12:15] So, I saw two people.

[00:12:16] You guys probably saw hundreds of people, right?

[00:12:18] So, like, you have to account for that kind of loneliness factor.

[00:12:22] Even if you're introverted, you're going to miss being around people a little bit.

[00:12:27] So, that's a big one and probably the biggest one for me.

[00:12:31] And then also, kind of an underrated one, too, is you have to really be comfortable in your own skin.

[00:12:36] Like, if you're going to be an independent consultant, like, I always think about, like, when you go to a party and someone asks you,

[00:12:40] Hey, Eric, if they're meeting you for the first time, like, what do you do for a living?

[00:12:43] And I say, I'm an independent social media consultant.

[00:12:46] Like, what do you think their reaction is to that?

[00:12:48] But it's usually like, oh, he's out of a job.

[00:12:51] He's looking for a job.

[00:12:52] Oh, yeah.

[00:12:53] Versus if I'm, you know.

[00:12:55] See, I would have tapped into you about, okay, tell me what to do on social media.

[00:12:58] Well, yeah, that's true.

[00:12:58] What's happening?

[00:12:58] What are the trends?

[00:12:59] It's not everybody, right?

[00:13:00] But you do get some eye rolls, though.

[00:13:03] Those of us that love it in the world.

[00:13:18] All that kind of stuff, which I am.

[00:13:21] But that's, to a lot of people, I think that's a drawback.

[00:13:24] So that's kind of a part of it, too.

[00:13:26] And part of your journey, I know you were, have been deeply involved in some organizations like Social Media Breakfast, Public Relations Society of America.

[00:13:37] How did that help you throughout your career and share some advice for people who may be looking for networks?

[00:13:44] Yeah.

[00:13:44] No, that goes back to the people, for sure.

[00:13:46] I mean, when I joined PRSA, that was probably, geez, I don't know, early 2000s.

[00:13:52] You know, you joined PRSA, I joined a committee.

[00:13:54] I met people that way.

[00:13:56] And then once you join a committee, they target you.

[00:13:58] And they're like, hey, you should think about getting your APR, which is accreditation in this PR profession.

[00:14:03] Okay, I'll do that.

[00:14:04] And then you do that.

[00:14:05] And then they say, hey, you should join the board.

[00:14:07] You'd be like, oh, okay, I'll do that.

[00:14:08] And they'd be like, hey, you should be president.

[00:14:10] And they'd be like, oh, okay, I'll do that.

[00:14:11] And I was on my way of doing that when I started becoming a solo.

[00:14:15] And then I said, I can't do this anymore.

[00:14:16] But I met so many great people through that alone, all that joining.

[00:14:22] And Social Media Breakfast isn't quite the – it's not set up the same as an organization like PRSA, which is an international organization.

[00:14:29] But same thing.

[00:14:30] You go to Social Media Breakfast on a Friday, and you will meet all sorts of people from all walks of life.

[00:14:37] Like I met – I've spoken there multiple times.

[00:14:40] And every time I go there, one time I met a kid who I'm talking to right now about some different opportunities.

[00:14:45] He was in high school.

[00:14:46] He was a sophomore in high school.

[00:14:48] Love it.

[00:14:49] He approaches me.

[00:14:49] He shook my hand.

[00:14:50] He was very professional.

[00:14:51] And this kid's like 16 years old.

[00:14:54] How do you even hear about Social Media Breakfast?

[00:14:56] You know?

[00:14:56] It's crazy.

[00:14:57] So I'm just – I think it's huge for networking.

[00:15:01] And as you both know, your network can help you in so many different ways.

[00:15:05] That's just hugely valuable.

[00:15:07] And it's a little underrated, especially right now, these kids coming out of college.

[00:15:11] Like – and I teach at the University of St. Thomas.

[00:15:15] And I try to impress upon them the value of that network.

[00:15:18] I don't feel like they're getting that as much as they got before because we're, you know, a little – we're working at home.

[00:15:23] We're hybrid.

[00:15:24] Maybe we're not doing – maybe the organizations aren't doing as many meetings as they used to.

[00:15:30] So I think that's kind of a – not to get off topic, but a little bit of a kind of an opportunity for the kids coming out of college that they could build those networks a little more actively.

[00:15:43] Jill, you have been involved in so many boards and committees and – I mean, you're good at this, right?

[00:15:52] And talk a little bit about why you find value in that.

[00:15:55] Oh, I – the networking, the relationships is priceless.

[00:15:58] I mean, really being able to put yourself outside of your four walls.

[00:16:02] And I think that's what I needed in a mid-career where I was realizing I needed more stimulus.

[00:16:07] I needed more inspiration outside of the retail world.

[00:16:11] And that just opened up a whole new, you know, opportunity for other industries to just learn more about them.

[00:16:20] I'm like a sponge.

[00:16:21] I love to take on new things.

[00:16:22] I love to meet new people.

[00:16:23] And you also can connect the dots with things that people are doing in other industries of how could that influence what you're doing?

[00:16:30] Totally.

[00:16:30] How could we work together?

[00:16:31] And it's not that short-term transaction.

[00:16:33] It's a long-term relationship because what you might not be able to do today might connect the dots later down the road.

[00:16:39] And I think that's come full circle multiple times for us here at MOA just because of the variety of things that we do.

[00:16:45] But I think there's a lot of benefit when you can put yourself out there in uncomfortable situations that you will eventually become comfortable

[00:16:52] because you learn to navigate that new, you know, opportunity or that new surrounding.

[00:16:58] It really is valuable, especially for people that are just beginning their careers to get involved in different groups and volunteering.

[00:17:05] By the way, I'm currently on the board of PRSA.

[00:17:09] There you go.

[00:17:10] Get ready.

[00:17:11] You're going to become president.

[00:17:12] Not ready.

[00:17:12] Not ready for that.

[00:17:13] You're going to become president immediately.

[00:17:15] The journey is not going there, but love the group.

[00:17:18] It's an amazing group.

[00:17:19] You talked a little bit earlier about LinkedIn.

[00:17:22] Jill and I both love LinkedIn.

[00:17:25] I shouldn't speak for you.

[00:17:26] I believe we both are.

[00:17:27] We're both active on it.

[00:17:28] You are correct.

[00:17:28] And we do love it.

[00:17:30] I had the opportunity to speak at the University of Minnesota this week, and they posted about it.

[00:17:35] I saw that.

[00:17:35] And somebody, I don't remember what you commented.

[00:17:40] I'm sure Dan can remind you.

[00:17:41] I know.

[00:17:42] Look at him.

[00:17:43] He's trolling for compliments.

[00:17:44] It applies to both of you, really.

[00:17:46] It does.

[00:17:46] I commented, and you both are this, really.

[00:17:49] Marketing and Communications Hall of Fame in this community, which is totally true.

[00:17:54] Well, Dan's brilliant.

[00:17:55] So if I get to be a latch on to that brilliance, I love it.

[00:17:59] No, thank you for that.

[00:18:00] I appreciate it.

[00:18:01] And I was trolling for a compliment.

[00:18:03] No, but LinkedIn is a really great platform.

[00:18:05] And I agree with you, Eric.

[00:18:06] I think that we all would go to Twitter constantly for those quicksum, those bites, those headlines and things.

[00:18:14] And Twitter's gotten a little bit rocky.

[00:18:17] And I know that as a brand, we continue to reevaluate.

[00:18:19] Do we want to be there in that conversation?

[00:18:22] And we continue to be because we don't want somebody else to grab our account, right?

[00:18:25] So we've really navigated that piece.

[00:18:28] But LinkedIn has more and more, as a brand even, we were using it just for job postings and being able to connect with potential candidates, things like that.

[00:18:37] And then individuals on the team were using it to be able to share content.

[00:18:41] But now we've been using it much more as a brand, especially not even B2B solely, but also recognizing that there's a business consumer out there that's very interested in our content.

[00:18:52] And I would love your thoughts because you are very consistent on LinkedIn.

[00:18:56] I think it is important to have that consistency because it also helps garner more followings and more connections.

[00:19:02] But when you post things as a brand, that's one thing.

[00:19:07] But then as executives or leaders within an organization, what is the strategy of reposting your brand content, having your own voice, having your own perspective, but then also sharing and celebrating with other people in the industry their accomplishments and things like that?

[00:19:24] So talk a little bit about LinkedIn strategy.

[00:19:26] Great question and passion topic for me, for sure.

[00:19:31] I think that you two are good examples of this too at the mall.

[00:19:36] I mean, I would argue you two are basically the de facto spokespeople for the mall.

[00:19:42] Now, some of that is on purpose just based on the elevated titles that you have.

[00:19:47] And part of it is you've just been here a long time too, right?

[00:19:49] So you have all the history and everything that goes with us.

[00:19:51] People associate you with the mall.

[00:19:53] Right, 100%.

[00:19:55] So you are the spokespeople for the mall.

[00:19:56] So you two specifically posting things as Jill and Dan on LinkedIn are going to carry a lot more weight than what the mall posts.

[00:20:06] Now, the mall's account certainly has its place, but they're going to connect with you because LinkedIn, much like Twitter, is like a person-to-person platform.

[00:20:14] So, you know, you talking about that you're speaking at the U, for example, I mean, it has really nothing to do with the mall.

[00:20:21] But it still confers a certain status or authority on the mall just because you work here.

[00:20:27] Everyone knows you work here, right?

[00:20:28] If you're talking about – you could be talking about even – I don't think I've seen you do this.

[00:20:32] But you could be talking about some of your kids' sporting events at formerly Simley or St. John's, and every son goes to St. John's.

[00:20:40] And that still connotes, I think, authority and reputation for the mall because people are going to feel more connected to you.

[00:20:47] They feel more connected to the mall by that consequence.

[00:20:50] So I think there's a ton of value in people like you.

[00:20:55] It doesn't even have to be people like you at your level, but you guys have kind of fallen into those spokespeople roles.

[00:21:01] I do think one of the misconceptions a lot of people make about LinkedIn when it comes to kind of leaders and people posting on LinkedIn is that you mentioned the sharing and sharing, like, the corporate content.

[00:21:12] And, like, I would say five to six, seven years ago, that was totally true.

[00:21:16] But then somewhere along the lines during the pandemic, LinkedIn kind of changed the algorithm.

[00:21:20] And now it doesn't reward sharing.

[00:21:22] It rewards commenting.

[00:21:24] So if you're – I just had this conversation with a client this morning.

[00:21:28] If you're on LinkedIn and you want to share or you want to support the corporate content, your best option really is to either like it or comment on it, not to share it.

[00:21:37] Like, they want you to share your own unique content, right?

[00:21:40] So, like, even if it's like – so, for example, let's say the mall was – you had a new opening for, like, Addicted.

[00:21:47] Let's say prior to the Addicted opening.

[00:21:49] Like, oh, let's think about what we're going to do with LinkedIn.

[00:21:51] And the corporate account made a nice post and then everyone was going to share it.

[00:21:56] Instead of doing that, like, you, Jill, go to the grand opening, which I'm sure you were at.

[00:22:01] You get your own photos at the grand opening and you storytell about what the Addicted grand opening meant to the mall.

[00:22:09] So even sharing it and adding your own content to that share, you're saying just totally outside of that, do you?

[00:22:14] Yeah, don't do that.

[00:22:14] Okay.

[00:22:15] Share your own content.

[00:22:15] Interesting.

[00:22:16] And then comment.

[00:22:16] Sure.

[00:22:17] Support the corporate post by liking and commenting on it.

[00:22:19] So that's a big shift.

[00:22:20] Yeah.

[00:22:20] No, and so that goes – like, then the cadence of that.

[00:22:24] How frequent – because I feel like I ebb and flow.

[00:22:26] Like, I'll get on a roll and I'll be posting a couple times a week and then all of a sudden I don't post for a couple weeks or something.

[00:22:31] But I know that repetition is important.

[00:22:34] Yeah.

[00:22:35] So what is your rule of thumb for leaders, executives within brands?

[00:22:40] How frequent is there?

[00:22:42] Is there a rule of thumb?

[00:22:44] I think for me there is because it's number one, start small.

[00:22:47] So you guys are past this, but it would be once a month.

[00:22:50] And consistently once a month, right?

[00:22:52] Every month, once a month.

[00:22:53] So you've got 12 posts in a year – or 12 months in a year, you've got 12 posts.

[00:22:56] So you start there and then you try to work up to once a week.

[00:23:00] Okay.

[00:23:00] I don't think you guys – especially people like you, you're busy.

[00:23:03] You have day jobs.

[00:23:04] This is not a primary focus for you.

[00:23:06] You don't need to post more than once a week.

[00:23:08] That's plenty.

[00:23:09] And you have plenty of opportunities at the mall of things to talk about.

[00:23:12] So I don't think it would be a shortage of content opportunities for you.

[00:23:15] But once a week would be more than enough and a good cadence to shoot for, I would say.

[00:23:21] When you post on LinkedIn, you do a lot of storytelling and you just posted a top 10 list.

[00:23:27] I'm trying to remember what it was.

[00:23:28] I just read it.

[00:23:29] Yeah.

[00:23:29] Jobs I wanted to do in retirement.

[00:23:31] That's right.

[00:23:32] And I thought it was really unique, right?

[00:23:34] It was fun.

[00:23:35] It was fun to read through.

[00:23:36] It's a mall dream.

[00:23:37] It's a mall dream.

[00:23:37] Yeah.

[00:23:37] If money was no obstacle.

[00:23:39] As I recall, that was at the early part of this.

[00:23:42] But you really do produce a lot of original content.

[00:23:46] I see a lot of people, a lot of leaders that post very similar content regularly.

[00:23:54] I'm at this conference.

[00:23:55] I'm without a lot of depth to it.

[00:23:58] Right.

[00:23:58] Kind of a photo with some other people and so honored to be here.

[00:24:03] And talk a little bit about the strategy.

[00:24:05] Is there a strategy behind that versus somebody who's creating new content?

[00:24:10] Well, I think the challenge is real with that, right?

[00:24:14] Like we're all at the same conference.

[00:24:15] What am I going to say that's been different?

[00:24:17] Number one, think about visuals differently, right?

[00:24:20] So instead of thinking about the group photo, which everyone's going to do,

[00:24:23] like think about what kind of photos and perspectives that could make it different.

[00:24:29] So you kind of have to put like your creative director hat on a little bit.

[00:24:32] And I'm not a photog by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm constantly thinking about

[00:24:36] like what are the camera angles that are going to be different?

[00:24:39] They're going to set me apart.

[00:24:41] What are the shots going to be that are different?

[00:24:43] I remember last time I visited here, I didn't get anything but a nice shot of that Mall of

[00:24:48] America offices sign you have outside your offices.

[00:24:50] And like that, that's all I needed.

[00:24:52] Like that's good enough, you know?

[00:24:53] So like visuals matter a lot and it pays to get a ton of them.

[00:24:58] So that's number one.

[00:24:59] And then number two, I would say think about like what is that instead of like trying to

[00:25:04] summarize the conference, like what I try to do is like think about what was the one or two

[00:25:08] moments in the presentations or the events I went to that really perked my ears up and I went,

[00:25:13] oh yeah, that's something, you know?

[00:25:16] If it perked for you, it probably will perked for somebody else.

[00:25:17] Yeah, right.

[00:25:18] Exactly.

[00:25:18] Yeah.

[00:25:19] I like that.

[00:25:19] So what about the, sorry, I have so many questions.

[00:25:23] What about the balance of sentiment?

[00:25:26] Like having, I have a tendency to always gravitate towards celebration and, you know, giving the

[00:25:33] team credit and just celebratory components.

[00:25:38] Like, oh, we opened this and, oh, we achieved that and this is the best team.

[00:25:42] And I don't tend to go towards the challenging times and be more vulnerable.

[00:25:47] And I know that that's important because people want, you need to be real.

[00:25:50] So how do you encourage people to have that balance?

[00:25:55] Because I think that becomes more interesting also to read and to follow.

[00:25:58] Yeah.

[00:25:59] Good question.

[00:25:59] I think sometimes people take the authenticity a little too far though, right?

[00:26:03] Like they try, like forcing vulnerable moments.

[00:26:06] So like for you, I mean, you're a pretty positive person.

[00:26:10] So like the fact that you're gravitating towards the celebratory aspects of them all

[00:26:14] in your job is not surprising.

[00:26:15] And I think that's good.

[00:26:16] Like it should reflect who you are.

[00:26:17] That's being authentic, right?

[00:26:19] So if you're a positive person by nature, you should focus on that.

[00:26:23] But I think you're right.

[00:26:24] There is some value to being honest about things you can be honest about, which again,

[00:26:31] when you're a leader, there's a lot of stuff that you can't cover that would be good stuff

[00:26:35] authentically to cover.

[00:26:36] But like you can't tackle that because it's HR related.

[00:26:38] It's legal related, stuff like that.

[00:26:40] But this still leaves a pretty wide group or wide swath of topics that you could cover that

[00:26:46] are more, maybe they're not super positive, but it's the challenge of the job within reason.

[00:26:52] And you just got to be careful about, you know, you don't want to paint coworkers in a negative light.

[00:26:57] Obviously, you don't want to paint them all in a negative light.

[00:27:00] So you just have to be a little bit careful with that.

[00:27:02] But I think if your tendency, I mean, I feel the same way.

[00:27:07] Like I'm a pretty, I feel like I'm a pretty positive person.

[00:27:09] So I tend to, you know, gravitate towards positive stories, patting people on the back,

[00:27:14] showcasing the spotlight on other people, that kind of stuff.

[00:27:17] Like I don't feel like I'm negative all that much.

[00:27:20] So I think more than anything, you just need to reflect mostly who you are.

[00:27:24] I love that.

[00:27:24] We just laugh because there's so much diversity in what we handle every single day.

[00:27:28] The types of content we have in meetings, the decisions that we have to make,

[00:27:32] to the, just the crazy things that pop up.

[00:27:34] And so to be able to reflect that more, I would like to be able to do more of that

[00:27:38] versus just always making announcements and, you know, talking about what's coming up.

[00:27:44] But it's just the uniqueness of the things that we cover are just, I think, fascinating.

[00:27:48] You should talk about that.

[00:27:49] I think about like the mall.

[00:27:50] When I was in here last time talking to the social media team,

[00:27:52] we talked about what they did on TikTok.

[00:27:54] And one of the interesting stories they did on TikTok was they featured that guy

[00:27:58] that does the landscaping around the mall.

[00:28:00] Like what an interesting job.

[00:28:01] Yes.

[00:28:02] That would be something for you.

[00:28:03] You could like, so the corporate account did that, right?

[00:28:05] And it was awesome.

[00:28:06] Super awesome.

[00:28:07] That one went viral, right?

[00:28:08] You know, it was great.

[00:28:09] But you could do the same thing and like, you're like, by giving that guy kind of like

[00:28:13] a virtual pat on the back.

[00:28:14] Like, thank you, Troy, for everything you do to keep the mall green.

[00:28:19] This has been a really interesting conversation with Eric Hansen, an expert in social media.

[00:28:25] The conversation continues in our next episode of So Much More.

[00:28:28] You'll learn about everything from TikTok to Substack.

[00:28:31] Join us.

[00:28:33] Thanks for listening to So Much More, a Mall of America podcast.

[00:28:37] Subscribe wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

[00:28:39] This show is presented by Bloomington, Minnesota Travel and Tourism.