Ep. 67: Hammer Made; An Entrepreneur's Story

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Mall of America, it's home to world-class shopping, great dining, and amazing attractions and events. And these are our stories presented by Bloomington, Minnesota Travel and Tourism.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey Mall of America fans, welcome to So Much More. I am your host for today's episode, Jill Renslow. And today we're talking about a brand with its roots here in Minnesota. It's grown to be a national and international sensation that is Hammer Made. It's a men's clothing line founded in 2009.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And joining me today to talk about his journey is the CEO and founder, Jason Hammerberg. And I've also invited a couple colleagues which you will be familiar with, Dan Jasper, who's our SVP of MOA Press, and Carrie Charleston, who is our head of leasing here at Mall of America.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have you kick us off, Jason. Tell us about Hammer Made. Talk to our fans, our listeners, maybe that aren't as familiar, sell them on this brand because it is amazing. We love having it here at Mall of America.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, and it's really a lifelong journey for me. I started out in men's clothing, right, as a kid in high school and worked in a storied 100-year-old company. And they had what I called the big three at the time. It was Tommy, Nautica. Remember Nautica had the big orange key chain on it and Polo Ralph Lauren.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I basically worked there to get the discount because I was a kid who loved clothing.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And then trying to figure out how to parlay that into a career was that venture.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And so the jump to the end, that was Hammer Made's creation.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: But the beginning of that is seeing all these guys come into the store and really being lost, trying to figure out what to wear, how to wear it.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: At the time, I'd lay down shirts and ties and I would plop down ties, tie them for them, say this is this and this.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was the building of Hammer Made in my young mind.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And several years later, as you mentioned, in 2009, was the spot where I stepped out and created this and said,

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I want a brand that is different, that is not just your whites and your blues and your basic stuff.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to bring color, vibrancy.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to help guys get over maybe the trepidation of, can I wear pink?

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Should I wear this flower?

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Should I do this and that?

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And while still having the white and blue, the normal stuff, but stepping across the line, being a rule breaker of that.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So, and today, how that brand sets up is we have more of a European-style shop.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Small in nature, the square footage of it.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not overwhelming.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you can kind of walk in and see, all right, I like that, I like that.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We've been called in the past like a candy store for guys, right?

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of color, a lot of interest, you know, socks and bright belts and different things like that.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, it's a way for guys to express themselves through their clothing.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And as I mentioned before, with shirts and ties, you don't see many ties anymore.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So the shirt really has become, you know, part of who you are.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It's part of that wardrobe for guys.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: You have great shirts.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I have added your shirts to my husband's wardrobe over the years.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just, I love the color.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I love the infusion of patterns and the mixing of patterns.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just great.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that, you know, when we meet with different folks, different colleagues, our partners,

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: you can see your signature when they're wearing your clothes, and it's great.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So you started here in Minnesota.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Talk about your start.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Your first location was in Southdale, correct?

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Galleria.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Galleria.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep, right across the street.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So talk about how that got started and how you have expanded over the years.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it was very difficult.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So I came out of the corporate world.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I was in the Dayton's department stores, right, in the buying offices and then in product development.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And as that whole thing shuffled around and it became other department stores, I went out

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and worked for a couple startups myself before starting my own.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And through that journey, those other startups both failed.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought, you know, if I'm going to go in and put all this time and effort into a startup, I want it to be mine, right?

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Enough of working for someone else and everything else.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't really understand the depth of that until I did that.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, you get out, you write the business plan, you start writing the checks, you start bringing in, you know, shirts and things like that.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_02]: The problem was at the time I had a large hockey bag that held about 30 shirts.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would put, you know, all of the customer's size shirt in there.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So they're all kind of like size 16, kind of a large.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Put them in there, drop them off, and they would pick the shirts that they like and they'd leave a check.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, there was no Venmo or anything like that.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And leave me a physical check and I would pick the hockey bag back up.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just couldn't get enough volume, you know, from that.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So I would do that again, sell shirts, bring more in.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And each time those built in, I would have more customers but never enough to do anything monetarily.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So I slowly dwindled down my savings.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I dwindled down my 401K.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I ran up my credit cards.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And at the very end, I figured out I actually had a pension from Target.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, yes, you know, empty it.

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was all in.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And then at the same time, all out.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So I had a conversation with a friend of mine from church who's an older guy, just like a sage, you know, kind of lived a good life type of dude.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're sitting and I'm pouring out my story and he's sipping his soup.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, you know, I'm out of money.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't find a lease.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't this.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't that.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I don't know what to do.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm feeling like I'm not participating in the family, right?

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not, you know, I'm draining.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not contributing.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, are you sure God wants you in this?

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, how do I know that?

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, what do I do to figure that out?

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I literally went out to my car.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: We were sitting at Perkins on like 50th and Highway 100.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And I went out there and I was just like, I have no idea.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I'm all out.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: God, if I'm not doing something right or if I'm doing something wrong, let me know.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Make it clear.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Just make the wheels fall off.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I got out of the parking lot and I turned to go north to Highway 100 to drive

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: back to my house.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, this is over, right?

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, go back, get a corporate job, you know, get into your responsibilities.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And the opposite thing happened.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So Warren Beck from the Galleria called me within two days, said, hey, I have a space for you.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: It's an eyewear.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: They're moving locations.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It's about 550 square feet.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's great for you.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: An investor that is a co-owner today said, hey, I sold my business.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be willing to put in money.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I immediately got shirts started.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I started construction right away.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And literally the night before Thanksgiving, so Wednesday night before Thanksgiving, we had

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_02]: the barricade up.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's inside, family, friends, steaming shirts, getting ready.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Nine o'clock, they pull the barricade down.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And after the mall closes, right?

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_02]: The next day is Thanksgiving.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: For some reason, my wife and I host Thanksgiving.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why, right?

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So add one more thing into the mix.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Finish Thanksgiving dinner, figure out we need to go get change.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And the next day we opened at the Galleria, like Black Friday, the busiest shopping day of the year.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was just like this.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: The signs were there.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it was one of those things where I couldn't tell that story because it really changed me as an individual at the same time, right?

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I look back over the last 15 years and the ups and downs.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's really what business is, right?

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to manage through the ups and the downs.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_02]: That's how we opened the first store.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That's great.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And then came Carrie knocking on your door to get you to come to Mall of America.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, actually there was, yeah, throughout Mall of America, right?

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Mall of America, I remember coming here the first week that Mall of America was open.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm a Duluth kid, came down with friends from high school and was like Mall of America, right?

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So Mall of America is like the dream.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we were in several locations here because also it's one of those things where you want to make sure as a retail kid,

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I went to school for retail and then apparel design and so on and so forth.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But as a retail kid, you know just because you guys bring in masses of traffic, right, a lot of people, I don't know, 40 million people,

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever the numbers are annually, doesn't mean that they're going to come into your store, right?

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't mean that they're going to stop and buy your shirt or whatever.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was really thinking like, okay, this is a great place.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: How do we make it work for the Mall of America?

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_02]: How do we – so we thankfully were able to bounce around with your team helping us.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_02]: We started out on the west side, which used to be a Vikings locker room space, started there, and then moved into the south side.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was kind of like, you know, guys were gracious with us as we, you know, moved around to say like, okay, what's going to be the right fit?

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it is a small, right, almost like a jewel box type of location.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But you need the traffic patterns as well that are, you know, co-tenancy and all those different things that you guys know better than I do.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, it was great to be able to work with the team to figure that out.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Carrie, I mean, I'd love for you to talk about that because the co-tenancy is important for all of our different brands.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And especially I think you found your home at the south side, but there was strategy behind that.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's always strategy for sure, and it's great that you kind of moved around to a couple different places to kind of find your niche.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And especially the merchandise mix is always changing at Mall of America.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We're always bringing in new tenants, new stores, new brands, which is always exciting.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But you've been in this location for quite some time now, and I think it's still a really good fit.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We try to be really thoughtful about the brands that we bring in and where we put them to kind of create that guest experience.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: But, no, and your store still pops to this day.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Dan and I were talking about it.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the way you merchandise the store just with the themed colors and everything, it just really showcases the clothing just in a spectacular way.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really fun to see.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I just mentioned to Carrie this morning, I said, it feels like I'm in a small European shop.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm glad you said that because that is the feel you get.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It feels boutique, and it's a good feeling.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd say your staff does a really nice job of welcoming guests in.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You never feel intimidated.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Granted, the merchandise is spectacular.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: But they're very engaging, and they help you shop the store in a really smart way.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's always my stop for Christmas.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I love getting the socks for stocking stuffers because they're just fun.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And you can find ones that match with everybody's personality.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I just kudos to your team.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You've done a great job of embracing the brand, the culture, and really bringing that forward for the guest experience because it's a great experience.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So important, right?

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: You think about that with how customer service, I feel as a whole, is probably dwindled.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And so trying to figure out those people that really do want to help, that are the experts, that can help you figure out, yeah, this shirt does look great.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Here's the outfit, all those kind of things.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm grateful to have so many great employees that are passionate about themselves.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So for someone that doesn't own anything from HammerMade yet, what is your recommendation?

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_01]: What is that first item to get them locked into your store and your brand?

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the path is to come into HammerMade Mall of America, understand your size.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So we do something a little bit different.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not just a small, medium, large, extra large.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_02]: We size by neck, also European, right?

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So guys will sometimes say, well, what's my neck size?

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just a gauge, right?

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean you have to button it up and wear a tie and you're 16 or 16 and a half.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just kind of a gauge.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And underneath that size, we'll say medium, large and kind of help them understand that.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's two fits.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a regular fit that's kind of a tailored and there's a slim fit.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So kind of understand that.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And then when I think about design, I design for multiple different people in my mind.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I design for people that are just like, well, I really like this box of what I call business.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just kind of like the white and the blue and some of those basic, you know, checks that they need multiple times a week.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Business casual, which is kind of more like Dan, right?

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: He could wear that with a pair of jeans, open collar, with a sport coat, you know, kind of blends that date night and business.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You can get away with either.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And then rock star.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So a rock star is, hey, I have a big event or I'm going on a date night or I'm, you know, going to Las Vegas for the weekend.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I need something that's bam.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, it's really best to come in and get and understand the size and what that means for you.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you can, you know, understand the brand better.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But it has to be a shirt, right?

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You need to start with that.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that we get all the time is like, I can't believe the compliments I get on my shirt, which is fun to hear.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And guys really are kind of surprised by that.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they don't think anybody's noticing them kind of bumbling around and, you know, whatever they're wearing.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's fun.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_02]: The European shirt shop, I have to share two stories that I have not shared before.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_02]: One is I used to sit, there's a bridge in Venice that has a little shirt shop on a corner.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And I would sit outside and count how many shirts they fit and how they merchandise that store just to like pack it, right?

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a broom closet.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's this tiny little store, but there was like 300 and some shirts in it, right?

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And so studying that and understanding like, wow, there is a different way to merchandise than we do it or than we have done it before in America.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_02]: At the time it was I came out of big box world, you know, the bigger the space, the better.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So that was one.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And the second fun story and bouncing around to different locations, we started with the Vikings locker room.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: We ended up in a couple spots.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of the spots that we ended up with on the south side was a store called Gist Accessories.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And they had a beautiful store and they shifted locations.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And the interior of that store was solid black.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And when we first did the architectural design and the drawings for the Galleria, it was kind of this old world tailoring back to that Venice plaster, wood, you know, this warmth.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And when I put the shirts in to this Gist Accessories store, it was like, all of a sudden the shirts became the hero.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And they really jumped off.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And that single move of that store shifted all of the design to black and let the shirts win.

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, so, yeah, something fun about the Mall of America that I just thought of in how that store design transpired and other things that we felt with there.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But long answer, start with the shirt.

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That's where they need to start with Hammer Make.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think we need to ask Dan.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you working on your rock star wardrobe now?

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of am.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I do fit in that category.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, I was telling Jason I own several of his shirts.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And the thing that first brought me to your store and that I love about it is the different look from the cuffs to the design.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And that little thing drew me in.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And I went, and then, of course, it's the tailoring and the fit.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's really good fabric, too, by the way.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So all of those things kept me being a customer.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_03]: But it was that unique look that I went, I love this.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And you talk about, you know, getting complimented on shirts.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever my husband wears his Hammer Make shirt, people call it out because their colors and designs that he wouldn't typically wear.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_01]: He's that, you know, safe.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: He does the neutral colors.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And so when he starts wearing the colors and patterns, I'm very curious of your inspiration,

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_01]: of where you go for your design strategy of picking out the fabrics, picking out the colors, the combinations, to Dan's point.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're not watching this, you'll see, like, the inside of the collars and the cuffs always match themselves.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_01]: But they complement the design on the shirt.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And so how do you put those pieces together?

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_02]: What was the game as a kid where you'd flip over the cards and then you'd try to –

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Was it, yeah.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't remember.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_00]: You got that like that.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's almost like that, right?

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like how I have this plethora of fabric.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And to back that process up, so I start with a CAD design.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I work with a woman in Portugal.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And we sit for two to three days on a seasonal collection.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I come up with what does it feel like it should be, right?

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: What is the season speaking?

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: What are guys wanting?

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you add in, you know, the colors of the season but without making it the whole shirt?

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's a button or maybe it's something like that.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So it starts like that with a piece of paper, which then transforms into a piece of fabric,

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: which then oftentimes I get that piece of fabric and I'm like, I thought it was going to be this,

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_02]: but now it's like a piece of clay, right?

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: How do I want to mold it?

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Do I want to make it into this type of shirt or that type of shirt?

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: We have hidden button downs.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: We have many different nuances that you can't necessarily see.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I parlay that with there's a show in Milan called Milana Unica.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It's about 45 minutes outside of Milan and a big convention center.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not so much like a fashion-type runway.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's really like a trade show, but it's the best of the best mills in the world.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So you have the best – you have the Laura Pianos and the Zenyas and, you know, all the different best fabric mills of Italy

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and then the zippers and the buttons and the trims and fur and wool and everything is under one roof.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So they have a great display.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_02]: They show here's the seasonal trend.

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So the next one will be in February and then that will be for spring, summer, 2026.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So they're about, you know, 12, 18 months out and here's the palette.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Here's the Pantone colors.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So between those two things is where I start.

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_02]: But then once I get it, it's like, okay, now how do I want to cut it?

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Who is wearing this?

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_02]: What are they wearing it for?

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And then within that shirt – so the fabrics come out of Europe, Portugal, Italy.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So like you say, it's the best fabrics in the world, which is where it has to start in that – in the makings of a great shirt.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And then once that shirt is decided on, the model of the shirt, just as a sideline – again, people aren't watching.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they tune in to see this.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But with Dan's shirt, you're saying, yeah, it has the collar and it has the cuff.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It also has like a bottom hem.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And within that shirt, also an important inspiration is the customer themselves.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So there was a guy that was talking to me.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: He said, I love your shirts.

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I love when I flip back the cuff and it has that detail.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: He said, the problem is I like to roll my cuffs twice and then it goes away.

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I said, let me work on that.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So Dan's shirt actually has a blind stitch, you know, about mid forearm.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So you can roll it twice if you want and that keeps with that.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But that came from a customer.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I did not know that.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know –

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Start rolling those things.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So this is called the polo model.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: You can see faintly – you can see that blind stitch kind of right in the middle of the forearm.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But so it has that capability.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So inspiration, you know, I love nature.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot of different things where as a kid who grew up in Duluth who spent a lot of time in the woods and building forts and running trails.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, you walk into the woods and look at the amount of greens you see.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Or like one thing that always caught me too in looking at Lake Superior is, you know, where the horizon and the sea or the lake meet.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Just like how many blues do you have there?

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of different things strike me on that.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But at the end of the day, it's what is the customer going to buy, right?

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So I can't be too crazy because, you know, I'll still get – there's some kind of weird with guys teasing, right?

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was always the guy like, oh, nice white shoes, Hammer.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, yeah, whatever.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But there is still that level of guys have to be comfortable in what they're wearing no matter what age they are because they still have a little bit of that self-consciousness of, can I wear this?

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the compliments and spouses, significant others, whatnot that, no, you can wear this.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Try it.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Helps them, you know, get to the next phase.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, when they get compliments from somebody else aside from their spouse, it is more impactful.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Validation, right?

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting that you bring that up about like what people are wearing.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_00]: The world has changed so much over the last five years.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything that you did to like pivot or adapt to the differences in styles and the way we lived our lives?

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Like we weren't coming to the office as much or, you know, just everything kind of changed.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So is there anything that you did that you can speak to that you kind of adapted?

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I think – I mean, COVID was interesting for us because we went from 75 people to five.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was one of those things where it was really we had 11 locations across the U.S.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and trying to work through that, trying to work through people, feeling, you know, really feeling horrible about that myself.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember sitting in my driveway thinking about like what do I need to do?

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I have these employees.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I have their families.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you feel this heavy weight.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Thankfully, there was assistance for them.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, so monetarily they were okay.

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And in working through that from a business level, we did a couple things.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_02]: We did a shirt that there was three or four different sayings, but one of them was optimism is contagious as well.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So trying to do – we did like three or four different shirts.

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_02]: That all went back to the employees.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And then from a bigger picture, you know, people are not wearing workwear.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: They maybe have their one Zoom shirt that they keep off to the side of them, put it on before they go back out.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: With shirts on in the bottom, yeah.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So they weren't buying anything from us.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yes.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So we did adapt.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: There's guys that love their golf stretch shirts.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So we did that.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's other brands that had already done that.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: That wasn't an innovative thing.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And I also like to say within the world of fashion as people are like, oh, my gosh, this shirt stretches.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, yeah.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Have you ever looked back to those old pictures where, you know, your uncle or your grandpa has a shirt with a collar that's like this big?

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_02]: That was that same thing.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not new.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the same material.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So – but guys are like, oh, wow, this whole – you know, it stretches.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's also been in women's wear for about 25 years, you know.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I love it.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Guys wouldn't buy stretch jeans before.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_02]: When I was with the department stores, if we said anything stretch, oh, no.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, no.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, if you say anything but stretch, they don't want it.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So, that was one thing is really just like shifting that mentality of comfort and making sure they had what they wanted from those aspects.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's really continued on not only from shirts but to pants.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: We have sport coats now that are stretched.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So, that comfort piece is, you know, one of the biggest things that, you know, we carry forward.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And with that stretch, with that comfort goes ease of care.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So, we just did a social media video recently that was, you know, a bomber-type jacket that was crumpled in a ball specifically and just like grabbed it from my seat and put it on because it's indestructible.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So –

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you have a big year this year.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a celebratory year.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So, let's talk a little bit about that.

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you guys doing anything to celebrate your 15th year anniversary?

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So, we had a great party last week.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_02]: 10-10 was kind of the date that we picked to have like this really like fun party just to get people together, talk about the ups and downs of it, to thank people that are involved with it.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I gave shout out to my parents, my wife, my investor, but employees, customers.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Because you think about all the people that are involved in just allowing something to survive, right?

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So, every person that has a hammer-made shirt or a pair of socks or a pair of our denim, whatever it is that has helped us.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And then continuing that optimism, I think getting through some of those things that almost flatline you and you just have a couple blips of hope, you're like, okay.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we can figure this out.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Like what does that next phase look like as we regrow to 75 people and beyond, right?

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_02]: What does that new growth mode look like?

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, what changes do we make?

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_02]: What – you know, all those different things.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's a mind of thankfulness, of celebration.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So, as you describe the brand for those that are listening and watching, what would you want to tell them about hammer-made?

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: As you look at the year ahead, obviously you have this big celebration this year.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, where can they find you?

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Where should they connect?

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: What does their journey look like with your brand in the year ahead?

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: As I mentioned, in-store going to, you know, the Hammer Maid, Mall of America, Southside.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people get overwhelmed by the Mall of America.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they're like, oh.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And when you understand the path, like pick your favorite spot to park.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You get a little path.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, hey, here's the places I want to hit.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Really, it's the only place that you can go and hit everything that you need to hit and be back out.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, you go to other places.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to hit something here, something there.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So pop into the store, understand some of the great new fabrics.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_02]: We have this new flannel from Italy.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you touch it and you'll like want to take a nap and just like, like seriously, I can wear this thing all day?

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's part of the journey.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And looking forward, you know, we're continuing to expand, continuing to look for new locations.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the biggest things for us is we're still an unknown, right?

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: 15 years in, there's not a lot of people know and understand.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And part of that is by design because we are not mass.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I am not a fan of, you know, here's, you know, thousands of shirts that all look the same.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: We do limited run.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So on the tab of the shirt, it'll tell you just like a piece of art.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: This is shirt number 37 of 120.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So get a piece of that.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Understand we have guys that collect and understand how many shirts they have.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And it becomes really a prized possession for them.

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, come in and engage with it and understand how a small investment like that can mean so much more to your whatever it is.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_02]: If it's a boardroom meeting, if it's a date night, if it's a big event.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Trip to Vegas for some rock stars.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Trip to Vegas.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: We actually have a store in Las Vegas now.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to ask you about that.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So I've noticed you've been expanding outside of Minnesota.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Vegas, you're in the Miami airport.

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Arizona, Scottsdale.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Just opened Scottsdale a couple weeks ago, yeah.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Pittsburgh Airport.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_00]: How – what is your expansion strategy there?

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Like why the markets that you've chosen outside of Minnesota?

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think, you know, Scottsdale, we have a lot of snowbirds here from Minnesota.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Makes sense, yeah.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that are – I have asked for that store in Scottsdale for a long time.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So putting that together.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Pittsburgh is interesting because I – you know, we've looked at Philadelphia and we've done some different things there.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But Pittsburgh became an airport opportunity.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And so our customer is a traveler.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a good place to, again, find us, touch, feel.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And airports are very difficult to operate, right?

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: They're open, you know, 6 a.m. until 9 or 10 p.m.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: You have to have employees that – all these different things.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, the customer is there.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He's traveling.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's part of the reason on those two most recent ones.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And is that a tie to, like, e-commerce at all?

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you have a lot of sales from those markets?

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that a connection at all or no?

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there are.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Scottsdale, yes.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Pittsburgh, no.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the other – you know, Las Vegas.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a lot of people that end up in Las Vegas, like it or not, that they go there for a conference or a convention or entertainment.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: For sure.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And really, that city is just growing with all their professional teams now.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So continuing to keep an eye out for where and how do we find our guy?

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Where can he touch and feel and understand how, you know, much different this is than what he has?

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_01]: All really fun markets.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, to wrap things up, I would love for you to close us out with knowing what you know today.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_01]: If you were to look back at your younger self thinking of this journey that was ahead and for other entrepreneurs that are listening today, what advice would you give yourself?

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know, the continued determination.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I felt this way even just last Thursday before our party.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that overwhelmed feeling where you're just like, oh, just have so much stuff to do and so much stuff needs to come together.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm an exercise guy.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And so in the morning, I dropped my son at school and I was just like, ugh, having a rough day.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And I ended up swimming that day.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was just like, I was trying to remember just like prayers of thankfulness.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thankful for air in my lungs.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thankful that I have a body that I can swim.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thankful that I have a business.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think some of that like really like that self-talk, like that good, healthy, because when those things come around, I mean, you need to do that, right?

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You need to have that exercise, good self-talk.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if you have that higher power in your life, you're kind of releasing that, looking for strength back.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_02]: All those things are very important.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But determination, grit, not listening to everything that comes through.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not trying to figure out everyone's piece of information for me.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really trying to say like, okay, what do I need to get done today?

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: What are the top priorities I have?

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: By the way, this was my top priority today, Mall of America podcast.

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We appreciate that.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And like how do I show up for that?

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of things that, you know, you won't get done.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the biggest thing is there's many dreams that don't get chased because of whatever, fill in the blank.

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Whether it's monetarily, fear, you know, can I, can't I?

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, man, this is it.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_02]: This is all we have, right?

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You have the air in your lungs today.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You have the chance to do anything you want to do.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Do it.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So why do we hold back?

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Why do we, you know, watch other people, whether it's social media or reality TV or why wait?

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, why not take?

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's responsible ways.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: When I was in the corporate world, I had started a baby line.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I actually had a bunch of friends just getting married and having babies and it was driving me broke.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, man, another baby shower, another like wedding, another bachelor party weekend.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I was just like, I mean, like turn my pockets inside out.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But I created a little baby wear line that was onesies and that was message onesies, right?

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was in a paint can and in the paint can was a onesie.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So basically it was a gift ready to go.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And the little onesie said like, what happens at grandma's stays at grandma's.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a little cute message.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And then there was one that was, you know, you get those tags, you go to invent, hello, my name is.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was printed on there, but then there was a little Sharpie in the can that you could write the baby's name on.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So I did that.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So you're working, you're getting the paycheck, you're kind of dabbling on the side to figure out, hmm, how could I, what could I, you know?

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And so start somewhere, but don't just sit there and wonder because you'll do that forever.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And before you know it, as we can all say, even the 15 years, wow, that went fast.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we thank you for following your dream because you have created an amazing addition to the retail industry.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously we love having you here at Mall of America.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for telling your story.

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for 15 years of success.

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_01]: We look for many more years to come.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Carrie and Dan, thank you for joining the conversation today.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is going to do it for this episode of so much more.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Be sure to check out Hammer Made the next time you come to Mall of America located on the Southside Level 1.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Celebrate with us and with them for their 15th anniversary.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And tune in to wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_01]: See you next time.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening to so much more, a Mall of America podcast.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Subscribe wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_01]: This show is presented by Bloomington, Minnesota Travel and Tourism.